Brexit visually represented

[BoroMart]

The choice was perfectly understood. It was Leave or Remain. It's a bit cliche now but Leave means Leave.

It is a cliche, because it has no nuance, no clarity, it was a vague concept, which was proven when they had the night of indicative votes and despite having a majority, the tories couldn't get anywhere near agreeing what leave looked like. To claim it meant "completely out" does not align with the comments from vote leave at the time, such as "nobody is talking about leaving the SM and CU".

 

[Nano]

It is a cliche, because it has no nuance, no clarity, it was a vague concept, which was proven when they had the night of indicative votes and despite having a majority, the tories couldn't get anywhere near agreeing what leave looked like. To claim it meant "completely out" does not align with the comments from vote leave at the time, such as "nobody is talking about leaving the SM and CU".

It was pretty clear from the wording of the question. The options were to Remain or to Leave. Not Leave a bit, Leave. The arguments were that in the long term we will still have a relationship with the EU in some form but that will have to be negotiated. The starting point was Leave the EU.


Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

1) Remain a member of the European Union

2) Leave the European Union

 

[BoroMart]

It was pretty clear from the wording of the question. The options were to Remain or to Leave. Not Leave a bit, Leave.

it clearly wasn't clear, because it didn't state specifically if leave was just the EU, or all of the institutions.

There are many people who voted for leave believing that we would still be in the single market.

 

[Derby_Red]

it clearly wasn't clear, because it didn't state specifically if leave was just the EU, or all of the institutions.

There are many people who voted for leave believing that we would still be in the single market.

In fact they were expressly told they would retain the benefits of EU membership without the cost. Incredible industrial-scale lying that has continued unabated.

 

[BoroMart]

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

1) Remain a member of the European Union

2) Leave the European Union

so no mention of the single market or customs union. Therefore they were not being voted on and should have remained intact. They didn't because the whole thing was a sham.

 

[Japsi]

The biggest lie was that 'They need us more that we need them'. The EU pulled an absolute blinder when that was dispelled, and the UK has been on the back-foot ever since.

 

[Lefty]

The choice was perfectly understood. It was Leave or Remain. It's a bit cliche now but Leave means Leave. Completely out. Start from scratch.

How do you explain this?

 

[Nano]

How do you explain this?

View attachment 39225

Loads of ways that could be interpreted:
1. It might be 100% accurate and it says Leave voters don't want to leave the Single Market
2. There is no other satisfactory option for Leave voters to choose so they've gone with the option that fits closest
3. Small sample size so not fully representative
4. Skewed sample reflecting more of a certain demographic or ignoring some demographic. 436 vs 300 Remain to Leave suggests it's not a truly representative sample of the electorate so weighting it. A third of respondents didn't vote Remain or Leave.
5. Fake Leave voters were actually remainers trying to skew public perception
6. Most likely is that expectation is not the same as desire. This was post referendum. I voted Leave but I didn't have faith in politicians delivering it based on the collective reaction in Parliament. There was very much a feeling of "they won't deliver what we've asked them to".

It's difficult to conclusively say anything about people's feelings at that time from this limited dataset.

 

[Japsi]

Loads of ways that could be interpreted:
1. It might be 100% accurate and it says Leave voters don't want to leave the Single Market
2. There is no other satisfactory option for Leave voters to choose so they've gone with the option that fits closest
3. Small sample size so not fully representative
4. Skewed sample reflecting more of a certain demographic or ignoring some demographic. 436 vs 300 Remain to Leave suggests it's not a truly representative sample of the electorate so weighting it. A third of respondents didn't vote Remain or Leave.
5. Fake Leave voters were actually remainers trying to skew public perception
6. Most likely is that expectation is not the same as desire. This was post referendum. I voted Leave but I didn't have faith in politicians delivering it based on the collective reaction in Parliament. There was very much a feeling of "they won't deliver what we've asked them to".

It's difficult to conclusively say anything about people's feelings at that time from this limited dataset.

Dear oh dear. This is like the ministers being wheeled out on national TV to defend the idiot Johnson.

 

[BoroMart]

It's difficult to conclusively say anything about people's feelings at that time from this limited dataset.

it's nothing to do with the data set, it qualified in the media repeatedly with people stating they thought we would be in the single market and customs union. It's about time we had the grown up conversation about how such a sham of a referendum was ever allowed to take place.

You provided evidence that proved that customs union and single market were not on the ballot, yet you interpreted it as they were. Therefore you have simply highlighted just how ambiguous voting leave was. I don't blame anyone that thought that leave meant leave everything, and I don't blame anyone that thought otherwise, because, and here's the kicker, it was intentionally vague.

 

[newusername]

It was pretty clear from the wording of the question. The options were to Remain or to Leave. Not Leave a bit, Leave. The arguments were that in the long term we will still have a relationship with the EU in some form but that will have to be negotiated. The starting point was Leave the EU.


Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

1) Remain a member of the European Union

2) Leave the European Union

Taking that on face value "...remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
if we go back to the graphic that started this thread... there were four landing spots that would've complied with the non-binding vote influenced by a foreign power, & all but one were mentioned throughout the campaign:
1. Inside the Customs Union but outside the SM (now the Northern Ireland option)
2. Inside Single Market & EEA, outside CU (Norway option)
3. Inside the SM but outside the EEA & CU (Switzerland)
4. Outside everything (GB)

Somehow we've ended up at 4. despite it never being mentioned as a possibility during the whole referendum and it is what the people voted for.


As has been said before, if remain had won 52-48 I doubt people would've agreed there was a mandate to join the Euro etc.

 

[Wiseman_Vaughn]

This is a good read!

"A referendum result is democratically legitimate only if voters can make an informed decision. Yet the level of misinformation in the current campaign is so great that democratic legitimacy is called into question".

"The problem with the question
The question assumes a binary choice — Remain or Leave the EU — while voting theory warns that allowing only two options can easily be a misleading representation of the real choice. When the true situation is more complex, and especially if it is one that arouses strong passions, then reducing the question to a binary one might suggest a political motivation. As a result of the present process, we actually don’t know how people would have voted when they had been offered the true options."


The Brexit Question