Brexit = single biggest mistake

For me I'd say brexit was a terrible decision, but locking down was equally as devastating and between the 2 of them we have crippled this country for generations. I can't chose which out of the 2 is more devastating, perhaps for longevity its brexit but lockdown was certainly a very poor decision which certainly caused the "first" energy price spike, throw in the quantitive easing through printing money to pay for furlough and you have a recipie for disaster. However we may have been able to cope with all this had we been part of the single.market
Everyone else also had lockdown. Do you see them suffering in the same way?
I've got a lot more sympathy for the decision to lock down than I do for brexit. There was pressure from all sorts of quarters to do it, and at the time we were uncertain of the I.pact and security of covid. and as pointed out l, lots of other countries also did it. We are certainly suffering the consequences of lockdown spending more than other countries are, and that i put down to brexit. But locking down for me was an absolutely suicidal decision that is only trumped by brexit, everyone is suffering all over the world as a result of it, and we are suffering the most due to brexit. My reason for pointing covid out here was the debate was "single worst decision" and I feel imposing a lockdown was almost as bad.
 
For me I'd say brexit was a terrible decision, but locking down was equally as devastating and between the 2 of them we have crippled this country for generations. I can't chose which out of the 2 is more devastating, perhaps for longevity its brexit but lockdown was certainly a very poor decision which certainly caused the "first" energy price spike, throw in the quantitive easing through printing money to pay for furlough and you have a recipie for disaster. However we may have been able to cope with all this had we been part of the single.market

I've got a lot more sympathy for the decision to lock down than I do for brexit. There was pressure from all sorts of quarters to do it, and at the time we were uncertain of the I.pact and security of covid. and as pointed out l, lots of other countries also did it. We are certainly suffering the consequences of lockdown spending more than other countries are, and that i put down to brexit. But locking down for me was an absolutely suicidal decision that is only trumped by brexit, everyone is suffering all over the world as a result of it, and we are suffering the most due to brexit. My reason for pointing covid out here was the debate was "single worst decision" and I feel imposing a lockdown was almost as bad.
Lockdown was absolutely the right thing to do. People look back and criticise it, forgetting we had no vaccines at that time. We already have 200,000 dead, how many did you want? Millions? Because that's what we would have had without lockdowns.
 
For me I'd say brexit was a terrible decision, but locking down was equally as devastating and between the 2 of them we have crippled this country for generations. I can't chose which out of the 2 is more devastating, perhaps for longevity its brexit but lockdown was certainly a very poor decision which certainly caused the "first" energy price spike, throw in the quantitive easing through printing money to pay for furlough and you have a recipie for disaster. However we may have been able to cope with all this had we been part of the single.market

I've got a lot more sympathy for the decision to lock down than I do for brexit. There was pressure from all sorts of quarters to do it, and at the time we were uncertain of the I.pact and security of covid. and as pointed out l, lots of other countries also did it. We are certainly suffering the consequences of lockdown spending more than other countries are, and that i put down to brexit. But locking down for me was an absolutely suicidal decision that is only trumped by brexit, everyone is suffering all over the world as a result of it, and we are suffering the most due to brexit. My reason for pointing covid out here was the debate was "single worst decision" and I feel imposing a lockdown was almost as bad.

what do you think would have happened to the economy if we hadn't locked down?
thousands (more) of ill and dead people isn't good for business not to mention the knock on effects on the NHS and everything else
 
In all honesty I think people.will find my reply offensive and cold, as it looks at the whole thing from a fiscal against health point of view, it certainly isn't meant to be taken that way, my thoughts are that the I.plications of sealing with the debt we have created will cause more health issues than covod ever would have, (i realise that's difficult to prive), I think out of respect for people who suffered loss i had better leave this here.
 
In all honesty I think people.will find my reply offensive and cold, as it looks at the whole thing from a fiscal against health point of view, it certainly isn't meant to be taken that way, my thoughts are that the I.plications of sealing with the debt we have created will cause more health issues than covod ever would have, (i realise that's difficult to prive), I think out of respect for people who suffered loss i had better leave this here.
Probably best.
 
Leaving the Single Market was a mistake.
Which part wasn’t a mistake a question with no real known meaning! That leave could just make up every possible dream outcome.

Mean while lying about what would happen if we remained!

It does take a genius to see the whole thing was orchestrated and people were stirred up to sow the seeds of hate and division to get what they wanted.
 
Which part wasn’t a mistake a question with no real known meaning! That leave could just make up every possible dream outcome.

Mean while lying about what would happen if we remained!

It does take a genius to see the whole thing was orchestrated and people were stirred up to sow the seeds of hate and division to get what they wanted.
Leaving the EU (as a political union, increasingly federal e.g common currency and common economic polices, that will struggle to be held together, the new Italian leader is talking about Italy leaving the Euro, unheard of in the past).

I agree a lot of people in left behind areas were angry, they are angry with those that have poorly governed them and have been for a lot of years possibly over 40 years. They know things could be better.
 
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Stopping talking about Brexit is impossible because of the continuous carnage and damage it is doing on a daily basis

The biggest act of self harm in the history of the UK, staggeringly moronic decision that was fuelled by the right wing racist media that rule the country

People who voted should be absolutely embarrased by their vote, they should be embarrased by any vote they have that is based on propoganda and emotion
and not based on reality, it's like making every important decision in your life after drinking half a bottle of whiskey

Sovereignty (which nobody understand anyway), bendy bananas and vacumn cleaners, oh and catching fish, an atomic sized proportion of the economy

Genius tories, lets blame the foreigners on austerity and food banks and we will get another extension of chaos

Mind blowing, the concept of democracy is useless if the electorate do not have the educational standard to evaluate information for a vote, but
that's how it works in the UK, keep the population dumb and they can be controlled
 
Leaving the EU (as a political union, increasingly federal e.g common currency and common economic polices, that will struggle to be held together, the new Italian leader is talking about Italy leaving the Euro, unheard of in the past).

I agree a lot of people in left behind areas were angry, they are angry with those that have poorly governed them and have been for a lot of years possibly over 40 years. They know things could be better.
He still repeats a Brexit lie. We were NEVER going to join the Euro. That was one of the many many Brexit lies that people still repeat. Along with people being too embarrassed to admit they were wrong, one of the problems with us collectively coming to our senses and reversing this catastrophe is the lies are actually ingrained in our society now aren’t they? That’s how good a job the media did on brexiters. Lies like sovereignty and turkey and the EU army are so ingrained in the memory that brexiters repeat them as if established fact. Brexit was also clever in that it pretended that the Euro, the Schengen Agreement and (latterly) the ECHR were the EU. These three lies pervade to this day.
 
Never ever forget too that the referendum was advisory only. There was absolutely no responsibility for the government to implement the result, especially such a close one. That they did so was entirely a political decision.

Also remember that had it been an actually binding referendum, the result would have been declared void due to the interference and lies.
 
Leaving the EU (as a political union, increasingly federal e.g common currency and common economic polices, that will struggle to be held together, the new Italian leader is talking about Italy leaving the Euro, unheard of in the past).

I agree a lot of people in left behind areas were angry, they are angry with those that have poorly governed them and have been for a lot of years possibly over 40 years. They know things could be better.
But they demonstrably aren't better - whereas in France and Germany they are in terms of regional development and GDP per capita.

You can be angry at those that have poorly governed, but to be conned that they were in Brussels rather than CCHQ is insane.

After another blunder by a Brexiteer Chancellor public services will be cut to the bone AGAIN to save money for tax cuts - the only economic approach that can make Brexit work.

I hope you'll be happy about your decision over political union when the NHS goes through a 'winter' crisis from October to June.
 
The NHS issues are not primarily to do with the EU or Brexit.

Tax cuts by the UK Government (on income, profits, stamp duty, alcohol) are a decison by the UK Government. All wrong decisons in my opinion. Nothing much to do with leaving the EU, these sort of tax cuts happened in the past when we were in the EEC/EU.

There is a lot of discontent in France too - evidence riots by the Yellow Jackets, 41% voting for a Far Right Popularist candidate (Le Pen) in the final presidential vote. She does not want a United States of Europe.

Every household (22m?) in the UK received a leaflet with the then UK Conservative PM telling them Remain was best.

If I was influenced by the right wing media I would vote Conservative at every election which I don't.
 
Brexit was and always will be a disaster, but as alluded to it's not a single event. It's been a long time in the making by a group of libertarian people intent on removing any responsibility the state has for citizens of the country. They want the rich to do as they please, corporations given free reign and the welfare state dismantled entirely.

Politicians of this country turned over the economy to banks and financial markets decades ago. They allowed them to do whatever they wanted and while doing so lots of them become very rich. The lent money to anyone and created a false reality that the country was rich and economy booming. It all came crashing down in 2008 and that was the start of the 8 year process of libertarians isolating Britain. Tory Austerity was the perfect breeding ground for making millions of people lives worse. The Bedroom Tax, Two Child Policy, Foodbanks and Local Authorities decimated meaning crucial local services and support were removed.

Six years of Austerity meant by 2016 lots of people were becoming increasingly frustrated, sick and angry with life. Vote Leave basically created a Good versus Bad situation and created the false impression the EU was the bad guy. This played perfectly in the minds of many in England. After all, the country has told itself the same myths for decades. We're the good guys and if fighting anyone else they're bad.

It still astonishes me that intelligent people voted leave in 2016. I know many switched on smart people who believed all the b***ks about Turkey, the NHS and Sovereignty. I bumped into a lad in the pub a couple of weeks ago. He was an ardent Leave Voter in 2016 and gave me loads of abuse at the time for explaining why the country should remain. He admitted to me that Brexit was rubbish and he wished he'd never voted leave, or been so vocal about it. I suspect many people are feeling that way these days.
Latest opinion polls have labour 8 points ahead.
Remarkably the Conservative support is holding up at 28 %.
If the super wealthy account for 5 % of the population who are the rest.
Perverts enjoying the misery imo.
 
The NHS issues are not primarily to do with the EU or Brexit.

Tax cuts by the UK Government (on income, profits, stamp duty, alcohol) are a decison by the UK Government. All wrong decisons in my opinion. Nothing much to do with leaving the EU, these sort of tax cuts happened in the past when we were in the EEC/EU.

There is a lot of discontent in France too - evidence riots by the Yellow Jackets, 41% voting for a Far Right Popularist candidate (Le Pen) in the final presidential vote. She does not want a United States of Europe.

Every household (22m?) in the UK received a leaflet with the then UK Conservative PM telling them Remain was best.

If I was influenced by the right wing media I would vote Conservative at every election which I don't.
The current NHS issues are massively connected to Brexit.

Nurse and doctor shortages are connected to Brexit, and so is the massive labour shortfall within social care. I work in social care and I can tell you, I have NEVER known recruitment difficulties like we have now in almost 30 years. Can't fill posts for love nor money. This impacts hugely on the NHS because beds are blocked as it is not safe to discharge patients without the required care in place.

Brexit is also costing the UK economy billions every year which affects the amount of funding that can be given to the NHS and local authorities.

If you don't think that Brexit is a primary driver of the issues the NHS and care sector is facing (along with covid) then frankly you are not in your right mind.
 
For me I'd say brexit was a terrible decision, but locking down was equally as devastating and between the 2 of them we have crippled this country for generations. I can't chose which out of the 2 is more devastating, perhaps for longevity its brexit but lockdown was certainly a very poor decision which certainly caused the "first" energy price spike, throw in the quantitive easing through printing money to pay for furlough and you have a recipie for disaster. However we may have been able to cope with all this had we been part of the single market!!!
Not locking down would have also crippled the country
 
I must not be in my right mind then.


There are serious shortages of care staff in care homes and care sector and this does affect the NHS, totally agree.

But this can't be all put on leaving the EU as the main reason.

Which countries do most non-UK care staff come from?

Is pay not a major issue when it comes to recruitment and retension?

Is it true that over 30% of staff in the NHS are managers or manager class?

Is the NHS in some Trusts suffering from large PFI payments from private contracts? my local hospital is paying out 10% of its revenue. Its also lost all its car park revenue.

Is true that all new nurses now have to take degrees and pay fees?

Is the supply of UK trained doctors controlled by the GMC (like a posh trade union for doctors) who have restricted supply in the past?

Has covid and its legacy put enormous new pressures on the NHS?

Has an aging population put enormous presures on the NHS?

Do NHS consultants do up to 2 days out their 5 days on private practice?

Did a form of health tourism exist from EU countries into London hospitals in the past?

Is the NHS pension systems encouraging consultants and doctors to do less work?

Is the number of hospital beds per population in the UK one of the lowest in the developed world?

Is it not possible to recuit staff into UK health and care sector with a visa? I agree more paperwork but it might be worth it if shortages are massive.

One of my relatives from Slovakia wanted to come to the UK to work in a hospital, She was fully trained anaesthetist, she was refused a job by the NHS because her English was not judged good enough. Instead she came and worked as a cleaner/chambermaid in a hotel. This was around 2003. She stayed six years and went back to Slovakia where pay levels now are close to the UK for health professionals. Her sister my sister in law does work for the NHS. At first they would not employ her, because of her English and foreign qualifications so she worked as a nanny for a middel calss English Family. The NHS later changed their minds when she took UK qualifications and her English improved. She did work in A & E at a big London hospital but then was given a distict nurse type job looking after Slovakian women in the UK with babies alot were of Roma origin who face racism in Eastern Europe. My sister in law is a great asset to the NHS and is allowed to work in the UK without restriction. She has children now here. In A & E there were no other EU born nurses that she worked with but lots of non EU ones.

For me pay needs to improve for low paid staff dealing with front line care. In the NHS less on managers and admin and more for front line staff.

A greater % of GDP needs to go on health care to increase capacity. Increase taxes on alcohol could help in small way which might reduce health problems too.

Also take home pay, raise the income tax allowance to £15.5k and this will make a £500 difference for someone on say £15.5k. Reduce tax perks to pay for this like 40% tax relief on private pensions.
 
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