Boro Backing Carrick!

gizasqueezemister said:
Gibson's pockets will forever feel light when it comes to MFC. Far too many fail to appreciate that. Thankfully he continues to ignore the nonsense and sign the cheques.
Click to expand...

I was probably slightly harsh in frustration with the situation. Don’t be fooled though, finances are definitely a reason why Carricks still here; Gibson would have to pay Carrick off and either Leicester or Luton for the two favorites to take Carrick’s place. I’m just a ST holder who’s fed up of travelling hours and spending a ton of money for an experiment that clearly isn’t working
 
Whether you like it or not Carrick and his misfit band of former players and his brother are here to stay for now. We just need to get behind them and hope he can turn it around and us this as a learning experience. After all we learn more from our failures than we do our successes. Utb.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Were we ever 4th? Were we really doing alright before Christmas? We won one game from 6 in December. It was a month in which we went to Rooney’s Plymouth and contrived to draw 3-3, then surrendered a 3-0 lead at home to Sheffield Wednesday.

We were awful against Cardiff and Portsmouth imo. In fact they’re games that sort of define what we are under Carrick. We got the early goal and a perfect start before we fail to clear our lines and Cardiff equalise. We then spend the rest of the game dominating possession without creating anything of note. At Portsmouth we take the lead before they got stuck into us and we buckled, losing 2-1.

Two matches against relegation-threatened teams in which we’ve scored first but somehow managed to drop four points. Sterile possession? Check. A stupid defensive error that led to the opposition scoring? Check. Unable to beat teams in the bottom three? Check. Another home game without a win? Check. A complete capitulation when put under pressure? Check. It’s all there.

And the main point here is that these are not new things. They have been happening since August 2023.

I’ve always said the teams end up playing in the image of its manager and this one is no different. The team has slowly deteriorated and is now an incoherent mess, riddled with uncertainty and wide open spaces, unsure of what’s it’s supposed to be doing.

Carrick is done here. In my opinion. I’m absolutely amazed that he hasn’t been relieved of his duties today. I can’t believe the chairman is putting his weight behind what’s been produced of late. It feels futile to keep it going. It needs fresh ideas, a fresh impetus, a fresh start on the training field. There is far more in this squad than what we’ve seen in recent weeks. I think we’ve missed an opportunity to breathe new life into it tbh. We desperately needed it.
Click to expand...
I think we were 4th at a couple of points but others might have had a game in hand, a bit like how we're lower now with a game in hand.

Yeah, I thought before Christmas was alright, pretty good actually (I was counting back a couple of months from memory). What were you expecting? Since half way through October to New Year (13 games) we had only lost to Coventry, Blackburn and Leeds, and had beat Sheff Utd and drew with Burnley. We won 7 of those 13, that's over a 50% win rate.

Cardiff H and Portsmouth A were far from perfect but we still deserved to win more than opposition did, and we came away with 1 point. Lost to Cov, Hackney got sent off for 2 yellows after 20 mins. VDB's sending off against Sheff Wed didn't help. We wasted a hell of a lot of opportunities away at Plymouth, but we showed good character to come back 3 times at least. Deserved to beat Preston. Dominated West Brom, got a 2 goal lead and saw it through. Battered QPR, Luton and Oxford.

You say we're unable to pick up points against the bottom 3, but before the last 3 games we were still doing very much ok, and getting enough points from better teams.

These are not new things, they've been happening since the end of our good period 15 years ago, and have been a hell of a lot worse under pretty much every manager since, so count back to then?

Really, I've no idea what a lot of you expect, or where this expectation is coming from?

Can you just acknowledge/ accept the below:
2/3 of the last 3 **** games have been against decent sides (Sunderland are decent, as much as I hate to say it)
He's lost his 3 best/ most effective players (LL and Doak), and Azaz (who was probably our best player to Christmas) has gone missing, so I'm counting him too
No fit strikers, with a track record anywhere near LL
On to our 4th keeper
Lots of injuries
Loads of ludicrous errors, if the players are as good as you think, this wouldn't happen
Conceded a lot of unlucky/ calamity goals
He's the coach, not the manager (he's getting far less say in transfers)
He's developed a lot of the transfers very well
His win rate overall is far better than what has been prior, since Karanka's 1 good year
He's in a ~30m profit on transfers, i.e his squad gets raped and he has to make cheaper players better to fill those holes
He rescued us from the **** big time when Wilder lost the plot
We're still only 4 points from 6th, with a game in hand and with 14 games to go
We're not in the top 3 best best teams in the league, with our avilibility

I'm happy to acknowledge:
The last 3 games have been ****
We don't seem to want to switch from 4-2-3-1, which is a system the club (not Carrick) is trying to buy players for.

I hope he's far from done, you really want to be careful what you wish for. Who else better is gonna come here as coach, and be expected to operate a transfer profit and get back into the prem? If you want a manager, and transfer debt then yeah, that's fine, but that's not the rules Carrick is playing with.
 
Andy_W said:
He's the coach, not the manager (he's getting far less say in transfers)
He rescued us from the **** big time when Wilder lost the plot
Click to expand...

1) Very few managers do these days, that’s just how the game is now. However it’s just as well he doesn’t have a bigger day as he personally asked the club to sign Giles and Edmundson - two atrocious signings who are nowhere near good enough.

2) Simply not true.
 
I sincerely hope Carrick turns things around. I genuinely thought that him and Woody would turnout to be a winning partnership and I hope our fortunes will change against Bristol City.

If we had to go for another manager I should like to see Steve Cooper in the job. OK, he hasn’t pulled up any trees recently, but I never liked to see his sides at the Riverside because they always put up a real fight . I can remember one occasion when he virtually swung a game at the Riverside with his decisions and his team (possibly Swansea ) won most undeservedly I thought.
 
ForssAwakens said:
A team that finishes 4 points off the plays off shouldn’t need 8 players adding to it. That’s to me is ripping it up. A whole host of players to integrate, again
Click to expand...
Ayling was one of the 8.
Morris replaced O’Brien, Burgzorg was in for Greenwood, Borges for Thomas. We strengthened with Doak and Conway, Hamilton was a bright young prospect and Edmundson was added as cover.

The club was delighted with its work last summer. It’s there in black and white, all over the local press and recorded in several podcasts. They’re easy to find if you want to read or hear what they were saying at the time.
 
Andy_W said:
I think we were 4th at a couple of points but others might have had a game in hand, a bit like how we're lower now with a game in hand.

Yeah, I thought before Christmas was alright, pretty good actually (I was counting back a couple of months from memory). What were you expecting? Since half way through October to New Year (13 games) we had only lost to Coventry, Blackburn and Leeds, and had beat Sheff Utd and drew with Burnley. We won 7 of those 13, that's over a 50% win rate.

Cardiff H and Portsmouth A were far from perfect but we still deserved to win more than opposition did, and we came away with 1 point. Lost to Cov, Hackney got sent off for 2 yellows after 20 mins. VDB's sending off against Sheff Wed didn't help. We wasted a hell of a lot of opportunities away at Plymouth, but we showed good character to come back 3 times at least. Deserved to beat Preston. Dominated West Brom, got a 2 goal lead and saw it through. Battered QPR, Luton and Oxford.

You say we're unable to pick up points against the bottom 3, but before the last 3 games we were still doing very much ok, and getting enough points from better teams.

These are not new things, they've been happening since the end of our good period 15 years ago, and have been a hell of a lot worse under pretty much every manager since, so count back to then?

Really, I've no idea what a lot of you expect, or where this expectation is coming from?

Can you just acknowledge/ accept the below:
2/3 of the last 3 **** games have been against decent sides (Sunderland are decent, as much as I hate to say it)
He's lost his 3 best/ most effective players (LL and Doak), and Azaz (who was probably our best player to Christmas) has gone missing, so I'm counting him too
No fit strikers, with a track record anywhere near LL
On to our 4th keeper
Lots of injuries
Loads of ludicrous errors, if the players are as good as you think, this wouldn't happen
Conceded a lot of unlucky/ calamity goals
He's the coach, not the manager (he's getting far less say in transfers)
He's developed a lot of the transfers very well
His win rate overall is far better than what has been prior, since Karanka's 1 good year
He's in a ~30m profit on transfers, i.e his squad gets raped and he has to make cheaper players better to fill those holes
He rescued us from the **** big time when Wilder lost the plot
We're still only 4 points from 6th, with a game in hand and with 14 games to go
We're not in the top 3 best best teams in the league, with our avilibility

I'm happy to acknowledge:
The last 3 games have been ****
We don't seem to want to switch from 4-2-3-1, which is a system the club (not Carrick) is trying to buy players for.

I hope he's far from done, you really want to be careful what you wish for. Who else better is gonna come here as coach, and be expected to operate a transfer profit and get back into the prem? If you want a manager, and transfer debt then yeah, that's fine, but that's not the rules Carrick is playing with.
Click to expand...
We have at no point this season ever been 4th.

You seem to be moving the goalposts about Christmas. It was 1 win in 6 in December - including a good point away at Burnley. Since then it’s been 2 wins in 8, 9 including the cup. 9 scored, 13 conceded.

Interesting you cherry-pick halfway through October - is that because we lost the 2 matches before beating Sheffield United?

What do I expect? Competence and progression. We aren’t seeing either of those things and I think that’s on Carrick, just like i thought it was on Woodgate, Warnock, Wilder et al when we weren’t seeing those things in their tenures.

He hasn’t lost Azaz at all. I mean if you’re going down that route then you may as well say he’s without all of them apart from Hackney and Burgzorg. And does a manager or head coach not have a responsibility to get a player playing again? Too many of our attacking players get away with doing whatever they like. It’s why we look a complete mess and are so easy to play through. Azaz and the like getting away with not defending exposes his teammates. Carrick shows no sign of knowing how to sort this out.

I don’t think I’ve ever denied he’s been hampered by injuries. I feel that some overstate them though. “We’re missing 10 first-team players,” etc, conveniently missing out that two were goalkeepers, two left backs, etc. Even when he gets Fry back, another off the list, he doesn’t play him. Forss is back but I guarantee he’ll barely start between now and May. When Howson comes back he’s a benchwarmer. Dijksteel, a decent player but he’s been here years and barely established himself.

His squad gets “raped,” - sorry I may be being touchy here but the choice of words there is absolutely horrible.

That aside, he knows the score when he takes the job. And this thing about Boro being a selling club, we have almost always been a selling club in that time. When I started going it was Mogga, Ripley and Kernaghan. We are not a ‘destination club’ as they say now.

Carrick’s job is to challenge for promotion while developing players. That’s his job. If he doesn’t like that one of his better players is going to be sold then he shouldn’t be working under those conditions. But apart from working for Real Madrid or Liverpool, it’s going to be the exact same thing at any club he manages or coaches. If the offer is big enough the player will leave.

This thing about our model, etc, I get it and I support it, but I think a lot of it is a modern way of describing what we’ve always really been. If one of our players is scaling the heights then the bigger or wealthier clubs come calling. What we are trying to make sure we do now is spent the money raised as wisely as possible and that’s commendable and sensible.

It was only about a month ago people were saying “we’re 5th,” “we’re in the playoffs…” then “we’re 6th,” then “we’re only one point off 6th,” then “we’re in touch” now it’s “we’re 4 points off 6th with a game in hand.” Come on. Wake up. A game in hand is useless if you don’t win it. We are relying on a handful of teams dropping points while we win matches consistently enough to take advantage of that and finish above them. Our form suggests we are way, way off and unlikely to be able to do that. The trajectory is down.

Be careful what I wish for? I wish for competence and progression. I don’t think we’ve seen much of that since August 2023. The last few weeks have been absolutely awful.

The excuses being trotted out are absolutely mad. I don’t think I’ve ever known a Boro manager - or head coach - get all the credit for the good stuff but be cut so much slack for the bad. Its almost like some people think the bad stuff is just something that happens to him abd he has no part in it.

It’s literally his job to organise the team and he isn’t doing it, and hasn’t been doing it for ages. That’s the truth of it. In my opinion of course.
 
Last edited:
viv_andersons_nana said:
Ayling was one of the 8.
Morris replaced O’Brien, Burgzorg was in for Greenwood, Borges for Thomas. We strengthened with Doak and Conway, Hamilton was a bright young prospect and Edmundson was added as cover.

The club was delighted with its work last summer. It’s there in black and white, all over the local press and recorded in several podcasts. They’re easy to find if you want to read or hear what they were saying at the time.
Click to expand...
7 or 8 it doesn’t matter. It’s a lot of changes to a side that finished 4 points off the playoff. You have to integrate them all

I tend to say actions speak louder than words, January tells me we were far from happy with the business we did
 
Last edited:
viv_andersons_nana said:
We have at no point this season ever been 4th.

You seem to be moving the goalposts about Christmas. It was 1 win in 6 in December - including a good point away at Burnley. Since then it’s been 2 wins in 8, 9 including the cup. 9 scored, 13 conceded.

Interesting you cherry-pick halfway through October - is that because we lost the 2 matches before beating Sheffield United?

What do I expect? Competence and progression. We aren’t seeing either of those things and I think that’s on Carrick, just like i thought it was on Woodgate, Warnock, Wilder et al when we weren’t seeing those things in their tenures.

He hasn’t lost Azaz at all. I mean if you’re going down that route then you may as well say he’s without all of them apart from Hackney and Burgzorg. And does a manager or head coach not have a responsibility to get a player playing again? Too many of our attacking players get away with doing whatever they like. It’s why we look a complete mess and are so easy to play through. Azaz and the like getting away with not defending exposes his teammates. Carrick shows no sign of knowing how to sort this out.

I don’t think I’ve ever denied he’s been hampered by injuries. I feel that some overstate them though. “We’re missing 10 first-team players,” etc, conveniently missing out that two were goalkeepers, two left backs, etc. Even when he gets Fry back, another off the list, he doesn’t play him. Forss is back but I guarantee he’ll barely start between now and May. When Howson comes back he’s a benchwarmer. Dijksteel, a decent player but he’s been here years and barely established himself.

His squad gets “raped,” - sorry I may be being touchy here but the choice of words there is absolutely horrible.

That aside, he knows the score when he takes the job. And this thing about Boro being a selling club, we have almost always been a selling club in that time. When I started going it was Mogga, Ripley and Kernaghan. We are not a ‘destination club’ as they say now.

Carrick’s job is to challenge for promotion while developing players. That’s his job. If he doesn’t like that one of his better players is going to be sold then he shouldn’t be working under those conditions. But apart from working for Real Madrid or Liverpool, it’s going to be the exact same thing at any club he manages or coaches. If the offer is big enough the player will leave.

This thing about our model, etc, I get it and I support it, but I think a lot of it is a modern way of describing what we’ve always really been. If one of our players is scaling the heights then the bigger or wealthier clubs come calling. What we are trying to make sure we do now is spent the money raised as wisely as possible and that’s commendable and sensible.

It was only about a month ago people were saying “we’re 5th,” “we’re in the playoffs…” then “we’re 6th,” then “we’re only one point off 6th,” then “we’re in touch” now it’s “we’re 4 points off 6th with a game in hand.” Come on. Wake up. A game in hand is useless if you don’t win it. We are relying on a handful of teams dropping points while we win matches consistently enough to take advantage of that and finish above them. Our form suggests we are way, way off and unlikely to be able to do that. The trajectory is down.

Be careful what I wish for? I wish for competence and progression. I don’t think we’ve seen much of that since August 2023. The last few weeks have been absolutely awful.

The excuses being trotted out are absolutely mad. I don’t think I’ve ever known a Boro manager - or head coach - get all the credit for the good stuff but be cut so much slack for the bad. Its almost like some people think the bad stuff is just something that happens to him abd he has no part in it.

It’s literally his job to organise the team and he isn’t doing it, and hasn’t been doing it for ages. That’s the truth of it. In my opinion of course.
Click to expand...
Post of the month and nigh on impossible to argue with...
 
I am not seeing any indication he has lost the dressing room.
The effort is there but it just isn't working.
So I cant see how changing the manager would help.
The players just don't have that little bit of magic.
The defence has been poor all season and we did nothing in January to strengthen it but I doubt that was through lack of trying.
We have just sold our best striker again because that's clearly what we need to do to balance the books.
So we will be leaking goals like we have all season but now we wont be scoring so many either.
That's just how it is.
I still think ours is one of the better run clubs in the country and our chance will come.
Just not this season.
 
Smoginexile said:
I am not seeing any indication he has lost the dressing room.
The effort is there but it just isn't working.
So I cant see how changing the manager would help.
The players just don't have that little bit of magic.
The defence has been poor all season and we did nothing in January to strengthen it but I doubt that was through lack of trying.
We have just sold our best striker again because that's clearly what we need to do to balance the books.
So we will be leaking goals like we have all season but now we wont be scoring so many either.
That's just how it is.
I still think ours is one of the better run clubs in the country and our chance will come.
Just not this season.
Click to expand...
And not under Carrick.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top