Benidorm Curfew/Spanish Lockdown.

Malaguena said:
No, they did say that at the start - I've got a timetable released by the government that was printed in Sur stuck on our fridge from when the lockdown release plan was first announced, which shows the phases, the dates of those phases, and what was likely to open / be allowed in each. The article did also say that it was dependent on rates not going back up as the phases were progressed.

I agree they didn't say different areas of the country may move at different speeds though
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Sorry. I did not explain clearly enough. My fault. I will explain what I mean further.

Those are specific dates 2 weeks apart on your fridge. That people could assume would apply to the whole of the country.

It was obvious that some parts of the country would not enter phase 1 on the most optimistic date that they published (e.g. Madrid, Catalonia and a number of others). Based on the level of infections and deaths at the time.

Up front, they did not say specifically that if a region started late they would have to stay in a phase for a period of at least 2 weeks. This would have been a sensible and obvious thing to say up front.

Then they changed their mind and announced that this would be the case. So you have to spend 2 weeks in each phase. Causing the Junta de Andalucía to be ***ed off about Málaga and Granada. Just one example. I am pretty sure there are others as well.

Now they are saying that it could be a period shorter than 2 weeks in each phase for some regions. For example for Málaga and Granada.

So effectively some provinces are perhaps taking greater risks by going through the phases too quickly. Increasing the risk of their being a higher second wave of infection.

If their first message had been a better one we would not have got to this position.
 
spanishman said:
Sorry. I did not explain clearly enough. My fault. I will explain what I mean further.

Those are specific dates 2 weeks apart on your fridge. That people could assume would apply to the whole of the country.

It was obvious that some parts of the country would not enter phase 1 on the most optimistic date that they published (e.g. Madrid, Catalonia and a number of others). Based on the level of infections and deaths at the time.

Up front, they did not say specifically that if a region started late they would have to stay in a phase for a period of at least 2 weeks. This would have been a sensible and obvious thing to say up front.

Then they changed their mind and announced that this would be the case. So you have to spend 2 weeks in each phase. Causing the Junta de Andalucía to be ***ed off about Málaga and Granada. Just one example. I am pretty sure there are others as well.

Now they are saying that it could be a period shorter than 2 weeks in each phase for some regions. For example for Málaga and Granada.

So effectively some provinces are perhaps taking greater risks by going through the phases too quickly. Increasing the risk of their being a higher second wave of infection.

If their first message had been a better one we would not have got to this position.
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Fair points.

I think the more recent "reactive" rather than "proactive" responses are because of the perception in the country that we're almost out of it, so the political game playing (national and regional) can recommence ...... plus of course the impending holiday season that's so critical to many regions
 
Malaguena said:
Fair points.

I think the more recent "reactive" rather than "proactive" responses are because of the perception in the country that we're almost out of it, so the political game playing (national and regional) can recommence ...... plus of course the impending holiday season that's so critical to many regions
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I agree 100%.

However none of the things you say are unexpected events.

The thing is when you are going to publish dates and plans for something as important as this you need to consider the possible implications and areas of delay in advance. Then structure your message accordingly. Not play catch up afterwards.
 
spanishman said:
Sorry. I did not explain clearly enough. My fault. I will explain what I mean further.

Those are specific dates 2 weeks apart on your fridge. That people could assume would apply to the whole of the country.

It was obvious that some parts of the country would not enter phase 1 on the most optimistic date that they published (e.g. Madrid, Catalonia and a number of others). Based on the level of infections and deaths at the time.

Up front, they did not say specifically that if a region started late they would have to stay in a phase for a period of at least 2 weeks. This would have been a sensible and obvious thing to say up front.

Then they changed their mind and announced that this would be the case. So you have to spend 2 weeks in each phase. Causing the Junta de Andalucía to be ***ed off about Málaga and Granada. Just one example. I am pretty sure there are others as well.

Now they are saying that it could be a period shorter than 2 weeks in each phase for some regions. For example for Málaga and Granada.

So effectively some provinces are perhaps taking greater risks by going through the phases too quickly. Increasing the risk of their being a higher second wave of infection.

If their first message had been a better one we would not have got to this position.
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I can only say what I understood at the time: each phase would be at least 2 weeks and a region would only move to the next stage if certain criteria were met. That seemed sensible to me.

Now they seem to be forced into bending these rules by political pressure.

Anyway, the most important thing is that the situation has improved no end. 1 death per day compared to 950 at its peak. Those numbers speak for themselves.
 
Malaguena said:
My understanding at the time also
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May be your understanding. However it was not stated. As it was not stated clearly people chose other interpretations.

Trust me, I read it very carefully. That is why I knew they made a mistake.

If what is written can be misinterpreted you have a problem. Unless you wrote it that way as a conscious decision.
 
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Andalucía will allow mobility between provinces in Phase 3

https://www.lavozdealmeria.com/noti...itira-la-movilidad-entre-provincias-en-fase-3

Google translation of the article:

Juan Marín announces this intention whenever the Government delegates this competence

Juan Marín, Vice President of the Andalusian Government and Minister of Tourism, Regeneration, Justice and Public Administration, reported on Monday that the autonomous community will allow mobility between its provinces if these competencies are delegated in Phase 3.

Marín has indicated that if it is true that in Phase 3 we will have certain powers, the Andalusian Government will propose, from June 8, that "mobility can be opened between all the provinces that are in the same phase in the community " He has indicated that we must trust that citizens respect the rules and remind them of it permanently, but we cannot let provinces that are in the same phase not have that mobility.

In this sense, he said that if next Monday the announcement of the Prime Minister, Pedro Sánchez, is fulfilled regarding the delegation of powers to the communities, the intention of the Andalusian Government is to open "to mobility all Andalusian provinces that are in the same phase ", and has been convinced that on June 8, Malaga and Granada will go to Phase 3 along with the other six Andalusian provinces, because they meet all the parameters.

He said that tourism has a complex situation ahead of it and has contributed 22.8 billion to our GDP in 2019 and with an increase in the first quarter of this year of 6.4% in terms of the number of national and international tourists compared to the same period in 2019, but "it has stopped dead" because "mobility has absolutely paralyzed the sector", both nationally and internationally.

During his speech at the Breakfasts of Europa Press Andalucía, the vice president stated that the Andalusian Government has a model to deal with the economic and social crisis that this pandemic has generated, which is "counterweight" to the one that the Executive of Pedro Sánchez and Pablo Churches are "implanting" and that may be "totally legitimate", but that the Board does not share.

In this sense, he pointed out that for the Andalusian Government it is essential to reinforce "public-private collaboration" at times like these, and to continue with a policy of lowering the tax burden, which has been shown to have increased revenues in the coffers of the autonomous administration.

He has also defended the decree of administrative simplification, essential to make it "easier for investment", while respecting current legislation at all times.

Regarding relations with the central government during this pandemic situation, the vice president has defended the loyalty shown by the Board from the beginning, although he did not agree with some decisions that were adopted.

He has stated that there has been a lack of dialogue by the central government with the communities and has warned that this asymmetry in the de-escalation of which Pedro Sánchez spoke cannot become an "asymmetry" between communities and citizens.

In this sense, he has indicated that Andalusia is going to demand equal treatment with respect to other communities and is not going to allow it to be taken "a single penny of what corresponds to it", by agreements of the central Government with "nationalists and populists" that They lead you to make decisions that you probably would not like to make, but to avoid that, what you should do is look for "other options in the dialogue."

In this sense, he considered that the distribution of the non-reimbursable funds of 16,000 million to the autonomous communities "cannot be an element to win favors from nationalists and populists."

For this reason, it has once again defended the criteria of the population for the distribution of this funds, pointing out that the distribution proposed by the Government of the nation means receiving 985 million compared to the 2,500 that would correspond to Andalusia if the population factor were followed. He has pointed out that he cannot allow Andalusia to be underfunded again. "Andalusia loses in that cast many millions that today are essential", he said.

During his speech, Juan Marín was convinced that after the health crisis "Andalusia begins a new future today with a roadmap that gives certainty and that is based on building the future on health security and economic recovery and strengthening. "The health-economy pairing must become an added value," he said.

From the Government

In a very similar line, the Minister of Transport, Mobility and Urban Agenda, José Luis Abalos, has spoken, explaining that it is possible to allow movements between provinces of the same autonomous community or even between autonomies that since June 7 are in Phase 3.

"You can establish mobility within the same autonomous community or between autonomous communities that are in the same phase," explained Abalos.

The sixth and definitive extension of the State of Alarm that the Government will request to the Congress of Deputies contemplates leaving in the hands of the Autonomous Communities that enter Phase 3 (the last foreseen in the transition plan) the duration and conditions of the same , except for mobility, an aspect that the Executive will continue to control.

Abalos explained that if the State of Alarm ends on June 21 for the entire country, it will not be possible to continue restricting mobility between provinces as until now. But from June 7, with the last extension, it will be possible in those territories that are in Phase 3, if they so decide and the evolution of the epidemic allows it, that it is possible to "establish a level of mobility well within a autonomous community or even between communities that are in the same phase, "said the minister.

Pilot test
The minister has confirmed the announcement made by the president of the Balearic Islands, Francina Armengol, that the quarantine imposed on tourists from abroad will be lifted on June 21, when the State of Alarm rises, in the archipelago, anticipating the date of July 1 originally planned by the Government.

Abalos explained that it is about launching a pilot project of "safe corridors" for flights that have as their origin and destination places with low levels of contagion by coronavirus, such as the Canary Islands.

Those trial days in the archipelagos will therefore prepare the most general opening of the country to tourism, added the minister.

Asked about the support that the Government will seek this Wednesday in Congress for this latest extension of the State of Alarm (since the support of the PNV has been guaranteed and the abstention of the ERC), Abalos has indicated regarding the citizens' vote, that until now it has voted yes to all the extensions, which have not changed the health circumstances that justify the maintenance of the Alarm State until June 21. Now, he has specified that he does not negotiate with the groups.
 
Daily info from my preferred Spanish stats guy

Note that a multiplication rate of 1.0 means approximately 0 events (cases or deaths) when comparing today`s 4 day average with yesterday's.

Note that this is the data from yesterday - due to timing changes to the release of data by the government

NOTE: He continues to be unhappy with the lack of central reporting of deaths in Spain

Google translation:

Data from Wednesday, June 3

Remember: the survey on confinement and climbing is active, your participation is appreciated. Access here to the questionnaire.

Today Fernando Simón has explained the situation regarding the series of total deceased and its stagnation in recent days. My verdict is severe, I am sorry: what has been done this week is a real bungling in terms of crisis communication. They should have a knowledgeable communication advisor on their team (no, I'm not available).

Let's go first to the case data. 219 cases are reported in the last 24 hours, 82 more than yesterday and 148 more than the minimum reached two days ago. There was a weekend effect. Madrid is responsible for 50% of today's cases, with 112. It follows the open focus of Aragon, it seems, with 20 new cases. Simón points out that now we have reached almost all suspected cases, so many of the new cases are not medically worrisome, as they are minor cases. As Simón correctly points out, it should not be inferred from this that the virus is less malignant than before, but that now cases are identified that were not previously contemplated to do the test even if they requested it. The multiplication rate remains at 1.002.

The mess of accounting for the deceased in recent days. Because it is a mess, in which Fernando Simón's team, the CCAES, has gotten totally unnecessary. The basic situation, which Simon has finally said explicitly today, and which is the interpretation we gave here from the beginning: the data on the deceased are frozen, not because there are no deaths, but because we are in a period of transition towards a new system of communication of data. If he had said it clearly enough a week ago, we would not have the national or international press or our Prime Minister saying that in Spain there are no longer deceased people with coronaviruses. Because that is not the reality although Simón has been extremely ambiguous throughout the week.

To the ambiguity about the meaning of the series has been added a movement of confusion, which now understood becomes even more incomprehensible that they have applied that decision. That instead of having the series totally frozen (and clearly indicating that it is frozen), they have been adding one or two deaths one day. What corresponds to those deceased? Only and exclusively to those who died the previous day and have been registered deceased with coronavirus that same previous day.

They will tell me that it should be the majority of cases that are counted on the same day. Well, no, it is a minority that is not representative of the situation, and today Simon has finally explained why: for the new data monitoring and communication system that the communities must apply since May 11. As you will see, everything is a little sad or tragicomic, but it is what it is. Since that date, a personal file system has been introduced that allows to follow exactly the entire process of a person since they are declared positive for coronavirus. Therefore, the starting point is in most cases since May in primary care centers, and another percentage has its origin in hospital centers (for example, emergency care or review before another medical act). All the alterations that occur in the profile of the infected person are included in his personal file: if he enters the hospital, if he moves to the ICU and if he finally dies. It is assumed that this is a simple formality and that all this is collected almost in real time in the file (which is supposed to be digital, but it is not clear that it is in all the autonomous communities). Well no: because someone has to enter the date on which the change occurs in the personal file.

And it is there, friends, where all the problems begin (I am not saying it, Simon has told it). The theory is that for all the cards that are opened from May 11 with the new system, the delays are slight, and the card is updated with a maximum delay of 48 hours (fabric, despite everything) . These updated data are those that correspond to most of the information that is now collected on cases, hospitalization and ICU in the last 7 days. And they are the figures that also correspond to the famous number of "deceased with death date in the last 7 days". These are the cases in which they have the entire file completed, from the beginning of the infection until their death. Today 63 people are killed by 34 yesterday. People did not understand that the number of people counted in the week increased by 29, but that the number of total deaths only increased by 1. That is the consequence of what we have today and that we interpreted this way for days: because we have the chaos of that it is not well explained that the number of total deaths is frozen until we move on to the new system, and to “facilitate” that no one understands what is happening, it is not completely frozen but rather leaves an open thread, that of the deceased yesterday with all the completed form.

And how can they not be able to do this with all the deceased since May 11, which are many, but correspond to a daily figure of about 100 at the beginning and probably about 30-50 now? Well, because they have to rebuild their personal file with the new system, for all those who got it before May 11. At the moment, it is the vast majority of those who die now. And they have to do it not only for these hundreds who died in May, but for the 28,000 from the start. This leads to the tragicomic situation that the new deceased are not communicated, although evidently they have their date of death, because their date of infection and hospitalization has not yet been entered in their personal file. Simón says that the centers are overwhelmed with this task, and that he hoped to have the new system fully activated in a week, but that it will take longer. And in this overflow of work, it seems that they have not considered it a priority to treat the files of those who died after May 11, in order to continue informing public opinion.

For 3 weeks, Simón has been saying that the new notification system will be a great advance for analysis because the data is much more rigorous, since the traces of each of the infected and their evolution are dated, with dates. That is undoubted, it is sure that it is necessary and it will undoubtedly be very valuable to manage both the departure of this first wave and possible re-sprouts. But that this transition of systems has been made leaving the death situation silenced with the traditional notification system that Spain has followed until May 11 and that all the countries of the world follow to date is a great botch in terms of public communication crisis communication. It is a fright.

When they manage to do their compilation work, we will finally have the number of new deceased that has been muted since May 25. Please, do it as soon as possible so as not to disconcert public opinion any further.

Meanwhile, the recommendation is clear to the press: it must be explicitly said that the death toll is frozen until further notice, and that only information on new cases can be reported.

I am convinced that Fernando Simón and / or his team do not have any kind of political calculation in this bizarre transition exercise, but simply do not have the crisis communication aspect integrated as an essential part of their mission, beyond being as clear as they can in what they see relevant. From the Ministry of Health, from the Government, which does have communication experts, they should address this issue in depth. They need communication experts on their team, at least in times of health crisis.
 
spanishman said:
La Liga 2 footy is starting again today.

Almería are playing their first match on Sunday evening. I hope to be watching it live on tv somewhere with my friend who is also a season ticket holder.

https://www.futbolenlatv.es/competicion/segunda-division-espana

Our final match is at home to Málaga on 19 July 2020. Bring it on......
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Isn't today's the 2nd half of a match that was abandoned at HT earlier in year ? Racist chanting at one of the Albacete players by Rayo fans I think - a Ukrainian with some pretty right wing views IIRC

Edit - thought so - https://en.as.com/en/2020/06/03/football/1591185480_732708.html
 
First footy for me since lock down.

Almería got an ugly win last night. 0-1 win away from home. Penalty on the stroke of half time. Best player on the pitch was our keeper. He kept us in the game on a number of occasions.

Back to 3rd place in the table. Only 2 points behind second place as they lost. Also only 4 points behind the leaders as the had a draw last night.

Onwards and upwards all being well.

Next match for us is in 2 days time.
 
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