Ben White

Played every game for the side top of the best league in the world, who also have the best defensive record in the league. Clearly overrated….

Media up to their old tricks releasing a story that’s 99% likely to be ***** the day before the World Cup quarter final
 
Sorry to hear he's gone home. I started a thread on him a few weeks ago after reading an article. Apparently, the "final straw" was turning up at a squad meeting not knowing certain "personal stats". Jesus, what is this? There's no room for anyone departing from the Kane-style orthodoxy of knowing your precise goals per minute ratio? White was probably sketching or reading a book about Ancient History or something - instead of pranking Mase about his big nose or getting excited about the lads' latest FIFA tournament. The weirdo! He's probably b*mming Graeme Le Saux as we speak.

Don't you dare be different!
 
“Ben White's exit from England’s World Cup squad was due to a disagreement with assistant manager Steve Holland.

The player was already unhappy in camp after struggling to mix in with his teammates and the bust-up was the final straw”
 
equaliser said:
Apparently, the "final straw" was turning up at a squad meeting not knowing certain "personal stats". Jesus, what is this? There's no room for anyone departing from the Kane-style orthodoxy of knowing your precise goals per minute ratio?
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They're professionals, do your job. If I turn up to a meeting not knowing the status of my deliverables I'll be in hot water. If my responses to the programme manager is so what, then I'll be removed from the contract. Take your job seriously or don't expect to be at the top of it.
 
BoroMart said:
They're professionals, do your job. If I turn up to a meeting not knowing the status of my deliverables I'll be in hot water. If my responses to the programme manager is so what, then I'll be removed from the contract. Take your job seriously or don't expect to be at the top of it.
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His job is to play football, which he's proven good at. As long has he follows his instructions on the pitch - he plays for a demanding manager in Arteta, so chances are he does - then why should he be obliged to memorise statistics? His real crime appears to be not being obsessed with football. As a result he's probably not boring company, unlike those who always tend know the "status of their deliverables" :rolleyes:
 
equaliser said:
His job is to play football, which he's proven good at.
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culture is important, you buy into the culture, or you are not part of the culture.
equaliser said:
As long has he follows his instructions on the pitch
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Games are won with off the pitch behaviour as much as on pitch ability.

Player identification looks at a 4 corner model, you can be a grade B+ technical/tactical and a B- Physical, but if you are a D in psychological and an E in social you won't go far. This isn't FIFA2023 with AI players, it's real people. Relationships matter, professionalism matters, teams aren't better than the sum of their parts by accident.

equaliser said:
His real crime appears to be not being obsessed with football. As a result he's probably not boring company, unlike those who always tend know the "status of their deliverables"
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ah the old switcheroo attack on the person who posted an alternative view to you, guess I've won this debate by default then.
 
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Southgate seemed to largely deny the reports when asked about it earlier, so not sure there's any need to try and make it another culture war.

It's probably just the age old tradition of the British press making **** up.
 
Yes. Let's focus on the guys who are out there. He's more than useful squad player, but unlikely to be the difference between us winning and losing the WC.
 
Have I missed something? He went home for personal reasons and has had an outpouring of support from friends and team mates?

Southgate has denied any wrong doing?

Yet he seems to be the next reincarnation of Satan?
 
BoroMart said:
culture is important, you buy into the culture, or you are not part of the culture.

Games are won with off the pitch behaviour as much as on pitch ability.

Player identification looks at a 4 corner model, you can be a grade B+ technical/tactical and a B- Physical, but if you are a D in psychological and an E in social you won't go far. This isn't FIFA2023 with AI players, it's real people. Relationships matter, professionalism matters, teams aren't better than the sum of their parts by accident.


ah the old switcheroo attack on the person who posted an alternative view to you, guess I've won this debate by default then.
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I wasn't attacking you, although your phrase did strike me as somewhat pompous. I was making comment on people like Kane and millions of others who appear obsessed with the game to the point of monomania. I like football, but I'd fancy an evening with Ben White would be more entertaining than one that saw 'Arry describing in detail his top five goals in reverse order.
As for "buying into the culture", why? You play football, why should you subscribe to its somewhat stifling 'culture'? White is a good, intelligent player, end of. If he goes home and prefers to read a book or jellyfish rather than pore over the minutiae of his performance in this or that training session, I'd say that gives him an A on 'the psychological'.
 
equaliser said:
His job is to play football, which he's proven good at. As long has he follows his instructions on the pitch - he plays for a demanding manager in Arteta, so chances are he does - then why should he be obliged to memorise statistics?
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I assume they're stats about playing football though? The runs players he might have to pick up at set pieces make? Which foot an opposition sub favours etc? If he's expected to go over a dossier of opposition info and know it, and he's chinned it off he should at the least take a boIIocking, or at worst he shouldn't be there. The game is long beyond just being able to play football.

If he's not been happy, had an argument and flounced off home, I assume after the way Maddison has been treated that will be him done with England till Gareth and his team move on.
 
equaliser said:
I wasn't attacking you, although your phrase did strike me as somewhat pompous.
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what phrase was 'pompous'? That seems to be the standard nonsense chucked around here when people can't debate like an adult. It's playing the man not the ball.

If I have expertise in the building of organisational culture then to share that isn't pompous, it's to simply sharing experiences. If you find it pompous, then the real issue is the arrogance on your behalf in thinking you have equal knowledge and experience to others. I believe it's called Dunning-Kruger Syndrome when you think everything you know is all that is worth knowing, and leads to dismissal of other peoples knowledge as being not important.

The fact that you define 'culture' as something that is 'stifling' says everything. The funny thing is you really don't have to look very fhard r to see the England players talking about absolutely loving the culture of the England camp these days and the long term players see just how different it was to pre-southgate....but of course from the outside, and with zero experience of building strong winning cultures, you know better, right!
 
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Caesium137 said:
I assume they're stats about playing football though? The runs players he might have to pick up at set pieces make? Which foot an opposition sub favours etc? If he's expected to go over a dossier of opposition info and know it, and he's chinned it off he should at the least take a boIIocking, or at worst he shouldn't be there. The game is long beyond just being able to play football.

If he's not been happy, had an argument and flounced off home, I assume after the way Maddison has been treated that will be him done with England till Gareth and his team move on.
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absolutely agree. I mean I have no view on if this is what has happened, or if it's something else that he has left for. But if as being fairly widely reported, he has left because of this, then it's absolutely the right thing. Because if you accept hi not doing it, then a load of others will not bother, then you get a us and them issue with the ones who see value in it and the ones that don't, that is the road to a toxic camp.
 
BoroMart said:
what phrase was 'pompous'? That seems to be the standard nonsense chucked around here when people can't debate like an adult. It's playing the man not the ball.

If I have expertise in the building of organisational culture then to share that isn't pompous, it's to simply sharing experiences. If you find it pompous, then the real issue is the arrogance on your behalf in thinking you have equal knowledge and experience to others. I believe it's called Dunning-Kruger Syndrome when you think everything you know is all that is worth knowing, and leads to dismissal of other peoples knowledge as being not important.

The fact that you define 'culture' as something that is 'stifling' says everything. The funny thing is you really don't have to look very fhard r to see the England players talking about absolutely loving the culture of the England camp these days and the long term players see just how different it was to pre-southgate....but of course from the outside, and with zero experience of building strong winning cultures, you know better, right!
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I'm trying to work out if this reply is pompous or Dunning - Kruger Syndrome
 
I don’t believe it either, doesn’t scan that Arsenal come out with all of the ‘We’re all with you, Ben ❤️‘ social media posts if he’s been binned off because of a row.

Not mixing well with the group seems a weird accusation too. He’s not Zlatan, doesn’t seem a huge personality, what’s that about?

I agree that footballers at this level have to do their homework. The analytic guys are there for a reason. You don’t have to be a football nerd like Xavi, but at that level you have to know what the substitute winger’s best foot is and what their five go-to moves are, it gives you an advantage. Slightly different situation but I don’t think keepers like Emi Martinez are saving 30% of their penalties because of just vibes.
 
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