Michael_Vronsky
Well-known member
Well that's fine and it's your prerogative but you suggested that your vote was because everyone else in your area voted Tory. That's nothing to do with voting for what you believe in.
Because of Abbott & Corbyn
- Thread starter Osboro
- Start date
Well that's fine and it's your prerogative but you suggested that your vote was because everyone else in your area voted Tory. That's nothing to do with voting for what you believe in.
Billy Horner
Well-known member
Not having a go at you personally, but I’ve heard that argument trotted out a few times since the election, including by a number of ‘expert’ political commentators. What it ignores is the fact that, while we’ve had a Tory PM for more than 10 years now, the Tories have had a majority in Parliament for just under three of those years.
I agree that it would be extremely difficult for Labour to win an overall majority at the next election, particularly without Scotland. I think I’ve read somewhere that it would need a swing greater than the 1997 landslide.
But all that actually needs to happen is for the Tories to fall far enough short of a majority that they couldn’t be propped up by the DUP. In those circumstances, Labour would be able to negotiate some form of confidence and supply arrangement with the other parties, making Keir Starmer our next PM.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
If they came from the MSM then don't bother. Their pages are full of this without giving the full conversation accounts.
Pog
Well-known member
No doubt at all.
I remember watching Labour MP Ian Austin screaming insults at Corbyn in the House of Commons, doing the media circuit to trash him and going out of his way to campaign for the Tories.
I was thinking, what has this guy been promised in return for all this?
Here’s your answer...
Scrote
Well-known member
Ain't that the truth!
Oh yeah, and the fact it's gonna damage the country for decades...
Wouldn't bet against the Lib Dems throwing their lot in with the tories and DUP rather than a Labour-SNP-Plaid-Green combo. I suppose Starmer binning off any semblance of socialist policy might attract them a little but in the end they'd surely follow their yellow tory instincts.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
Time to look at themselves, voting this bunch really did condemn some people to death and some to suffer hard times.
Im not hard left wing by thought and deed, not far off the opposite tbh, however Ive always disliked and distrusted the Tories, they sell things that they dont own and are experts in running things down or closing them altogether. They make sure whatever they have shares in can benefit from their guidance and input even if it shuts down home manufacturers and costs jobs.
We are all aware this bunch have run down manufacturing and the NHS, yet still the people vote for them, its a bit like taking ownership of Brexit, these voters must hold up their hands and face the music if this costs jobs and a difficult economy.
Im not hard left wing by thought and deed, not far off the opposite tbh, however Ive always disliked and distrusted the Tories, they sell things that they dont own and are experts in running things down or closing them altogether. They make sure whatever they have shares in can benefit from their guidance and input even if it shuts down home manufacturers and costs jobs.
We are all aware this bunch have run down manufacturing and the NHS, yet still the people vote for them, its a bit like taking ownership of Brexit, these voters must hold up their hands and face the music if this costs jobs and a difficult economy.
1finny
Well-known member
That’s my fear.
Lib Dem can only improve their position. Tory disaffected voters will find it easier to move to them and the party will prob jump at the chance. Having said that - Swinson’s hatred of JC definitely got in the way Last time.
The worst thing is those who have voted Tory for the first time.
It has taken them years to even think about switching from Red to Blue. Once you change it is difficult for some to immediately turn back.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
I agree, once a xxxx always a xxxx, theres no going back.
Same_as_before
Well-known member
I think you are wrong. The one off issue election is over. The party leader who put Momentum and the London elite first has gone. The lads in the club will be backing Labour.
Billy Horner
Well-known member
Whilst I agree that the Lib Dems shouldn’t be trusted (and I still haven’t forgiven them for agreeing to the last election), I think that, should the Tories fall short next time, the electoral maths would look after itself.
For the Tories to fail to gain an overall majority would not only require some form of resurgence by Labour in the north and midlands, it will need the Lib Dems to win Tory seats in the south. By definition, those voters will be actively rejecting the Tory government and be comfortable with the idea of Starmer as PM (in a way that they weren’t with Corbyn).
If a party with an 80 seat majority, who’ve been in power for 14 years, fail to win the general election, that’s a clear call by the electorate for change. The Lib Dems would have no alternative but to support a Labour government, as doing otherwise probably would kill them off for good that time.
The problem, of course, is getting to the point where the above scenario is possible. I agree with Finny that red wall Tories appear reluctant to switch back at the moment (perhaps afraid of admitting they were wrong?).
But 4 years is an eternity in politics. We know this government is probably the most incompetent in our history and that will be seen by more and more people over time.
I would have been happy with Corbyn as PM, but I have to accept that most people weren’t (rightly or wrongly). Starmer has made a decent start as leader and has begun to take the gloves off a bit more in his dealings with Johnson. If he can keep this going, I see genuine possibilities of a Labour government in 2024.
C
Cooper671
Guest
I would say it's less to do with that and more to do with comments like TT has made. Basically stating don't bother coming back.
Lessons by some weren't learned from Brexit regarding talking down, insulting others and seemingly it still hasn't sunk in from the GE 2019.
go-nads!
Well-known member
so you are saying people vote Tory out of spite?
Who are the London elite and what Corbyn Labour policies put them first? Sounds like rubbish to me that. If anything it's the rest of the country that had a lot more than London to gain from a Corbyn Labour gov. E.g. on the public transport nationalisations - London already has subsidised joined up travel networks. It's places like the North East that don't and would have felt the benefit of Corbyn's plans.
C
Cooper671
Guest
I'd say insulting 1st time tory voters who switched from labour isn't the best way to win them back.
In any other walk of life you wouldn't stand side by side with someone who spent 5 years insulting you. If they do it through spite because of that, that's up to them. You can't complain about if they do. Surely you can't think its ok to do that and still expect them to vote the way you do.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
Its difficult truth but these people are part of the mindset B1st , EDL, NF.
1finny
Well-known member
Come on coops - they are not bothered by a message board.
Starmer was up there the other week talking about patriotism and getting on with Brexit.
Its what the labour leadership do that’s important.
We need to remember those who left labour are more closely aligned, culturally, to centre right politics around nationalism. Arguably they could have gone years ago.
they are more aligned to centre left economically. As we have seen though nationalism usually trumps their economic views.
i do get it
go-nads!
Well-known member
some people are exceptionally fragile if they take notice of silly insults. After all, the right are quite adept at insulting the left, but it certainly doesn’t make me think I would change my voting choice.
There is a lot of resentment at the moment, there are splits in society, communities even families. I think it would be best if people took their emotions out of things, sat down and actually thought about what they are voting for and how they want politics to form society going forward.
Im pretty appalled by the current regime and the behaviour they have and continue to display. If it was a South American despot led dictatorship we’d think par for the course.
the level of corruption, nepotism and downright rottenness is flagrant and unprecedented.
Way_Out_West
Well-known member
https://fmttmboro.com/index.php?threads/report-breaches-of-the-rule-of-six.8174/
Imagine Dianne Abbott during this if Labour won. 8 million people have died of Covid