Bamford scoring for fun in the premier league

We will have to agree to differ. I think of Pulis as a man who will do anything if the price is right, including taking the flak for others errors. If you say jump he probably replies for how much, not how high
 
Why does everyone keep banging on about how we "let Bamford go", "he went too cheap", "Pulis is a mug" etc? It's not Championship Manager 00/01, the world is not that simple.
The situation was almost similar to Traore or Juninho, except they both had talent and wanted to leave to go to much higher standing clubs. Bamford was nowhere near the ability of those and wanted to leave to go to a slightly better club (the second time doing this to us). Gibbo left to do something similar too, as have many others.

He wanted to go, we needed the cash, his level was above that of what we had and where we could go in the timeframe of his contract, so we let him go, that's it, stop crying about it.

You can't fully blame Gibson, as he's been pumping in the money to keep us afloat
Pulis did a decent job, under the constraints he was given (get the wage bill down, so we don't go broke), and what he inherited
The above was proven a year later when a lesser manager took over with a similar team
The above is being proven again now as a similar level manager is getting slightly worse results, with a slightly worse team

The mistakes were made years and years ago, over spending on players, but that was just taking a gamble to try and bounce back, at least we tried (but failed).
One thing you all forget is that 80% of players wouldn't even consider living in the North East, unless we gave them megabucks or european football. We don't have either of those and now we're comparatively nowhere near the richest clubs (and drifting further by the year), but we do still have some morals, which is a good thing (but means nothing to most players).

Try running a company where you can only use 20% of the suppliers that your competitors have access to, it's practically impossible.
 
Missing the point that we had a previous player of the season who scored 19 goals in the championship, and yet we ***ed away 31 million pounds on buying three new strikers, ignoring the left wing and number 10 positions, before opting to play one up front.
We then sold the best of our forwards, kept the **** ones we overpaid for on, and will lose them for nothing this summer. Whilst also spunking the proceeds on the kind of workaday midfielder mowbray could have pulled out of his **** for 100k and a set of tracksuits.
It is monumentally F***ing stupid business. These aren't unlucky judgement calls. They are stupid decisions. Both from a footballing perspective and from a business standpoint. Total disaster.
 
Pleased to see Bamford scoring and fulfilling his potential in the premier league. I have always been of the opinion that his natural arrogance, probably as a result of being middle class, educated and intelligent, hasn't gone down well with British managers such as Monk, Dyche and Pulis. Not surprised to see him thrive under Bielsa
 
You said blame one person and one person only. Those were your words. You are a top poster and I generally agree with a lot you say. Gibson has a veto as owner, he ultimately decides. I am not in denial at all, some fans are. Some fans think the head coach has total responsibility. They don‘t. Bamford was sold for profit pure and simple Imho. Nobody wanted any of the other rubbish the owner wasted £40M + on. Pulis was Gibson henchman to assist facilitate said profit imho. To suggest the owner does not have the final say is unbelievable, in fact it is ridiculous. People really are brainwashed it seems. To suggest an owner of a business does not have the final say on anything that occurs within a company over an employee is frankly ridiculous, sorry but it is.

I have banged on about Karanka pointing out his gifts. People mocked. We then had Downing state on BBC Radio Tees that Karanka did not want him and still people believe players are bought and sold by managers, it is laughable.


just to pick up on the 'gift' terminology that karanka said about Downing and Rhodes i saw that the same way too... a gift is a surprise... something you were not expecting and certainly didn't ask for. i have no doubt that gibson signs players without consulting the manager at times
 
Missing the point that we had a previous player of the season who scored 19 goals in the championship, and yet we p****d away 31 million pounds on buying three new strikers, ignoring the left wing and number 10 positions, before opting to play one up front.
We then sold the best of our forwards, kept the **** ones we overpaid for on, and will lose them for nothing this summer. Whilst also spunking the proceeds on the kind of workaday midfielder mowbray could have pulled out of his **** for 100k and a set of tracksuits.
It is monumentally F***ing stupid business. These aren't unlucky judgement calls. They are stupid decisions. Both from a footballing perspective and from a business standpoint. Total disaster.

He was awarded player of the season in 14-15, then he ditched us, and did nothing for two years, absolutely zero, under a few different managers.
He came back in Jan 17 (after we had got promoted to the prem without him), under the same manager AK, and did nowt.
In 17-18 under Monk he scored 1 goal, up to December, despite playing all of the front positions (this was when we spent a fortune)
In 17-18 under Pulis scored 10 goals, from January, similar split of playing all of the front positions (kinda makes you think TP would want to keep him)
Britt outscored paddy, outscored him with a better goals per minutes that season and the season before when he was playing for Forrest (who were ****), and more than Paddy's best season which was about 4 years earlier.
18/19, Paddy managed an incredible (not incredible) 9 goals in 22 games, for Leeds, who created a lot, Britt would have outscored him in the same team
19/20, Paddy managed an incredible (not incredible) 16 goals in 45 games, for Leeds, who created a lot, Britt would have outscored him in the same team

There's a lot more history of doing ok, leaving and failing in there, than a proven track record of a great striker firing teams to promotion.

Yes, he's doing alright this year, but don't assume he will be what Biesla sticks with, as soon as Rodrigo learns the system and Leeds system gets sussed out, Paddy won't be as effective or playing as much.

Do I think he's a better goalscorer than Britt? - No
Do I think he's a better finisher than Britt? - Yes, just
Do I think he would be "right place, right time" more than Britt? - No way
Do I think Paddy's a more intelligent player overall? - Yes
Do I think either of them suit playing 1 up front? - No
Do I think we want to play one up front? - No
Why didn't we play two up front? - Probably because our defence was stronger than our creativity
What do we play two up front now? - Probably because our attack is marginally stronger than our defence, but we're still lacking creativity
Do I think he think you lot (and Paddy) think he's better than he is? - Yes
Did he score for fun at Leeds? - No (too early to say this year)
Has he been fortunate playing for a good side which created a lot? - Yes
Did Paddy want to leave us? - Yes
Did he have a history of wanting to leave us? - Yes
Why did he come back? - Because he didn't have many (any) other options
Did AK get the best out of him, when he came back? - No
Did Monk get the best out of him? - No
Did Pulis get the best out of him? - Yes
Did Pulis probably want to keep him? - Yes
Did we need to save some money/ cut the wage bill/ accept some offers from players we might want to keep? - Yes
Did we get stuck paying wages to duds, who nobody would want to buy? - Yes
Who scouts the players and spends the money? - Not the manager
Did Leeds try and sign someone to replace him/ an upgrade? - Yes
 
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just to pick up on the 'gift' terminology that karanka said about Downing and Rhodes i saw that the same way too... a gift is a surprise... something you were not expecting and certainly didn't ask for. i have no doubt that gibson signs players without consulting the manager at times
Yet many fans still blame Monk for our current predicament and absolve Gibson of any responsibility!
 
Great to see him doing so well. The Chelsea system that they used to operate trawling up all the young talent and then loaning them out can really cast a shadow over youngsters I think. I once spoke with football pundits from Czech Republic that lamented the loss of Tomas Kalas at an early age and said clubs like Chelsea were stripping them of all their young talent.
For the players themselves they don't have that one club that grow with and seem to take some time to recover and find their fee once the umbilical chord to the mother club is eventually severed. Tomas Kalas has found his feet also now but it was a rocky ride for him at first. Then there are players like Josh McEachran, he has never fulfilled his promise.
 
I always liked Kalas and actually felt like he had a real connection to us, unlike many who go through the motions when they're on loan.
 
He was awarded player of the season in 14-15, then he ditched us, and did nothing for two years, absolutely zero, under a few different managers.
He came back in Jan 17 (after we had got promoted to the prem without him), under the same manager AK, and did nowt.
In 17-18 under Monk he scored 1 goal, up to December, despite playing all of the front positions (this was when we spent a fortune)
In 17-18 under Pulis scored 10 goals, from January, similar split of playing all of the front positions (kinda makes you think TP would want to keep him)
Britt outscored paddy, outscored him with a better goals per minutes that season and the season before when he was playing for Forrest (who were ****), and more than Paddy's best season which was about 4 years earlier.
18/19, Paddy managed an incredible (not incredible) 9 goals in 22 games, for Leeds, who created a lot, Britt would have outscored him in the same team
19/20, Paddy managed an incredible (not incredible) 16 goals in 45 games, for Leeds, who created a lot, Britt would have outscored him in the same team

There's a lot more history of doing ok, leaving and failing in there, than a proven track record of a great striker firing teams to promotion.

Yes, he's doing alright this year, but don't assume he will be what Biesla sticks with, as soon as Rodrigo learns the system and Leeds system gets sussed out, Paddy won't be as effective or playing as much.

Do I think he's a better goalscorer than Britt? - No
Do I think he's a better finisher than Britt? - Yes, just
Do I think he would be "right place, right time" more than Britt? - No way
Do I think Paddy's a more intelligent player overall? - Yes
Do I think either of them suit playing 1 up front? - No
Do I think we want to play one up front? - No
Why didn't we play two up front? - Probably because our defence was stronger than our creativity
What do we play two up front now? - Probably because our attack is marginally stronger than our defence, but we're still lacking creativity
Do I think he think you lot (and Paddy) think he's better than he is? - Yes
Did he score for fun at Leeds? - No (too early to say this year)
Has he been fortunate playing for a good side which created a lot? - Yes
Did Paddy want to leave us? - Yes
Did he have a history of wanting to leave us? - Yes
Why did he come back? - Because he didn't have many (any) other options
Did AK get the best out of him, when he came back? - No
Did Monk get the best out of him? - No
Did Pulis get the best out of him? - Yes
Did Pulis probably want to keep him? - Yes
Did we need to save some money/ cut the wage bill/ accept some offers from players we might want to keep? - Yes
Did we get stuck paying wages to duds, who nobody would want to buy? - Yes
Who scouts the players and spends the money? - Not the manager
Did Leeds try and sign someone to replace him/ an upgrade? - Yes

"Did Pulis get the best out of him? - Yes"
Can't agree with this at all. Pulis played him out wide for a long time. As soon as Britt got injured and he got to play centrally he scored consistently. I don't think that was out of any coaching or tactics by Pulis at all, he merely got forced into playing him there. He then didn't get selected for the play offs despite being fit.
His overallll game, touch, intelligence, link up play and hold up play is far superior to that of Britt and Fletcher, especially at the time we chose to sell him. That's not to say he's perfect, but certainly better overall than the other options
 
"Did Pulis get the best out of him? - Yes"
Can't agree with this at all. Pulis played him out wide for a long time. As soon as Britt got injured and he got to play centrally he scored consistently. I don't think that was out of any coaching or tactics by Pulis at all, he merely got forced into playing him there. He then didn't get selected for the play offs despite being fit.
His overallll game, touch, intelligence, link up play and hold up play is far superior to that of Britt and Fletcher, especially at the time we chose to sell him. That's not to say he's perfect, but certainly better overall than the other options

Why? Pulis did a better job than our two managers before him, and one of them had worked with him previous!
Pulis also done a better job than the 2-3 other managers too, so that's better than 4/5 other managers, which is about the best you can expect.
He might have played him out wide initially, but was also probably just finding his feet with the squad, you can't just learn all that on day 1, it takes weeks. Equally you have to trust the existing coaches and what they're saying, until you form your own opinions and get your own ideas.

Bamford was more prolific under Pulis (after Pulis had been there a month) than under any manager, by an absolute country mile, and that includes Leeds, both season, Paddy's first season with us and obviously any other season.

As for their abilities, it's horses for courses, he might be weaker, slower and worse in the air too, it's all about how they fit your team and the way you play (or don't play on our case). But a square peg in a round hole, is not the most effective.

He only scored 16 in 45 games for the champions, who dominated most games, that rate is exceptionally low. Pukki got double that the year before, and the others are typically 20-30 goals for teams that go up.

Scoring rate doesn't really matter as much in free scoring teams, that get goals from everywhere, but it's absolutely critical in a low scoring team like us.
 
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I wonder what Karanka thinks looking back at his January 2017 meltdown.

Wanted Jese, Bojan, Snodgrass. Got Bamford, Gestede, Guedioura.

Knowing what we know now, Snodgrass is the only one you'd really say we missed out on. I'd much rather have Bamford in the squad than Jese or Bojan.

And looking back he hardly played him. I remember desperately hoping he'd try Bamford and Negredo as a front two but he never did.
 
Bamford is just a better player than Britt. One up front, two up front. Doesn't matter. He's better. It was a stupid decision to sell him. He is scoring in the prem with Leeds. The two remaining with us have got b***r all and we will lose them for nowt in the summer.
 
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