bear66
Well-known member
Even the UK (MHRA) is belatedly saying that this rare disease isn't seen in Pfizer vaccinated people.
Astra Zeneca vaccine death in Tenerife. article copied from Canarian Weekly newspaper
- Thread starter davidmills
- Start date
Jedi boro
Well-known member
I’m all for full disclosure but I think the reality is all medication involves some risk. Flu vaccines have led to deaths it’s tragic but I do think it’s sad reality.
it’s risk v reward
bear66
Well-known member
And that's exactly what European countries are doing. It looks like the UK will soon be following.
Have you any information on flu vaccine deaths? I couldn't find one confirmed link of a flu vaccine to a death.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Its not a 'fake' argument anymore than the OP is scaremongering. They are just two opposite views, people should be encouraged to have them on both sides. Just cos I said I stopped reading doesn't mean it should never have been posted.
Also, not sure there will be any 'choice' in the matter if passports become a thing, and if a person wants anything that resembles their old life back.
Laughing
Well-known member
Ah right, it's to do wit hthe relative risk from covid for a 30 year old versus a 65 year old. That makes sense.
Randy
Well-known member
So where does that put the vaccine passport then? If you are under 30 then tough titty?
People will say "they are only recommending under 30's don't get the AZ vaccine", well won't a majority of under 30's wonder why the other vaccines would be any different?
bear66
Well-known member
Alternative vaccines are available. Scotland received the first batch of Moderna today. I believe the England supplies of Moderna will be for the younger population.
All the vaccines are different.
This rightly should be investigated. There may be low risk...but if there is risk then it needs to be recognised. That way a lower risk vaccine may be able to be administered if required.
Constant research, evaluation and transparency is so important to combat antivaxination propaganda and to move forward successfully.
I remember working on a research trial with 30 participants over 65 and what shocked me was how many events occurred. In the control arm there was a brain tumour, a stroke and a hear attack within 6 months. All unrelated but all serious and investigated.
Constant research, evaluation and transparency is so important to combat antivaxination propaganda and to move forward successfully.
I remember working on a research trial with 30 participants over 65 and what shocked me was how many events occurred. In the control arm there was a brain tumour, a stroke and a hear attack within 6 months. All unrelated but all serious and investigated.
We should also remember that Astra Zeneca was made "not for profit" by agreement with Oxford University - it is pretty much alone in this. They wanted their research to help the world get back on their feet again. Am not saying things should not be fully investigated but this is the only vaccine that is going to be able to do this around the world. If we don't make the world safe then no single country can be totally safe again.
But is it "not for profit" forever or just a year? I thought it was a time-limited agreement negotiated by Oxford University.
But is it "not for profit" forever or just a year? I thought it was a time-limited agreement negotiated by Oxford University.
Randy
Well-known member
I get that. You've missed what I'm trying to say. If they bring in the rule that under 30's can't have the AZ vaccine some will think they can't have any covid vaccine at all, some will be scared off by that ruling. Do you get me?
Also from a personal point of view I think there are people behind closed doors who are profit driven regardless of what's happening with cases and deaths. They are targeting AZ purely for those reasons.
bear66
Well-known member
"During the pandemic' were the words used so presumably if annual vaccinations are necessary, this commitment will end.
bear66
Well-known member
Yes, I understand that. That's why companies and countries need to be totally open and communicate accordingly.
SmallTown
Well-known member
As far as I can see all the vaccines work in different ways. Stopping a group getting the AZ vaccine isn't stopping them getting a vaccinr
Randy
Well-known member
I get that, you get that. Does a 21 year old who couldn't care less what the branding is on the syringe get it?
We shouldn't even be talking a out them anyways. The government laid out the 9 groups. Once they are done then it's open up time regardless of what the SAGE scientists say about third waves in August
Andy_W
Well-known member
I disagree that this should be looked into, in great detail, with public knowledge and public pausing, as doing this is likely going to do much, much, much, much more harm than good, due to the mass of people who don't understand how tiny this vaccine risk is. If there had been thousands of obvious deaths, of people that are otherwise fit and healthy, then fair enough, but there hasn't. Meanwhile, it's probably already saved 10k lives and likely to be 100k by the end of the year (in the UK alone).
So, there's been 7 deaths, and 30 cases, how many of those were fit and healthy? 2/3?
7 deaths, how many of those are actually 100% to do with the vaccine? 3 at worst? That's about a 1 in 6 million chance
30 cases, how many of those are actually 100% to do with the vaccine? 20 at worst? That's about a 1 in 1 million chance
The chance of death in a motor accident is about 1 in 20,000, per year! Or about 1 in 250 over the course of your life, yet people don't even think twice about getting in a car, and nor should they. The gain for an easy/ better life is worth the tiny risk.
Now, people could compare this to the "from covid/ with covid" non-argument, but it would also be a non-argument as the risk is not just solely on the person taking the vaccine. By not having the AZ vaccine (which we have ordered the most of, and have best delivery of) this would massively delay vaccine rollout, herd immunity, and back to normality. It would also increase hospital cases, the chance of death from actual covid (for everyone), and the chance of death from just about anything else as if covid treatment goes up, treatment for everything else goes down.
They could have looked into this on the DL, to see what may be causing it, but in no way on earth should anywhere be pausing rollout or putting this vaccine in doubt, not when it's already saving lives at a 1,000 to 1. It would be like stopping wearing seatbelts, because some people get killed by seatbelts. Not wearing the seatbelt doesn't mean the car accident wouldn't kill you, or many other car accidents you end up in.
Putting the vaccine in doubt, when there's no reason to prove that it's anywhere near more of a risk than the alternative (not having a vaccine, or a long delay) is extremely reckless, and it's directly putting peoples lives at increased risk. Never would you try and reduce a small risk, if it increases a big risk elsewhere, it would be ludicrous. If I did that on a risk assessment, I would get kicked off the job, unless I was handing someone brown envelopes full of cash. The latter is probably why AZ gets looked into so much, seeing as it's getting so much market share, big pharma won't like it.
So, there's been 7 deaths, and 30 cases, how many of those were fit and healthy? 2/3?
7 deaths, how many of those are actually 100% to do with the vaccine? 3 at worst? That's about a 1 in 6 million chance
30 cases, how many of those are actually 100% to do with the vaccine? 20 at worst? That's about a 1 in 1 million chance
The chance of death in a motor accident is about 1 in 20,000, per year! Or about 1 in 250 over the course of your life, yet people don't even think twice about getting in a car, and nor should they. The gain for an easy/ better life is worth the tiny risk.
Now, people could compare this to the "from covid/ with covid" non-argument, but it would also be a non-argument as the risk is not just solely on the person taking the vaccine. By not having the AZ vaccine (which we have ordered the most of, and have best delivery of) this would massively delay vaccine rollout, herd immunity, and back to normality. It would also increase hospital cases, the chance of death from actual covid (for everyone), and the chance of death from just about anything else as if covid treatment goes up, treatment for everything else goes down.
They could have looked into this on the DL, to see what may be causing it, but in no way on earth should anywhere be pausing rollout or putting this vaccine in doubt, not when it's already saving lives at a 1,000 to 1. It would be like stopping wearing seatbelts, because some people get killed by seatbelts. Not wearing the seatbelt doesn't mean the car accident wouldn't kill you, or many other car accidents you end up in.
Putting the vaccine in doubt, when there's no reason to prove that it's anywhere near more of a risk than the alternative (not having a vaccine, or a long delay) is extremely reckless, and it's directly putting peoples lives at increased risk. Never would you try and reduce a small risk, if it increases a big risk elsewhere, it would be ludicrous. If I did that on a risk assessment, I would get kicked off the job, unless I was handing someone brown envelopes full of cash. The latter is probably why AZ gets looked into so much, seeing as it's getting so much market share, big pharma won't like it.
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SmallTown
Well-known member
They should do. They are 21 not 12I get that, you get that. Does a 21 year old who couldn't care less what the branding is on the syringe get it?
We shouldn't even be talking a out them anyways. The government laid out the 9 groups. Once they are done then it's open up time regardless of what the SAGE scientists say about third waves in August
Laughing
Well-known member
Not sure I can agree with that.
Let's assume that it is cross medication that caused the problem. Knowing that means you offer a different vaccine for someone on any medication that interferes.
It's an easy way to save a life.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
The safety of the Astra Zeneca jab has slowly crept up the news agenda since it was first written off as a political manoeuvre by the Germans and the French a few weeks ago.
These things are completely different to driving a car or wearing a seatbelt. If you thought your wheel might fall off you wouldn’t drive on the A19.
Nobody should be taking a vaccine which is causing blood clots without the problem being investigated thoroughly.
Its ok brushing it off until it’s you or your family who get the clotting.
These things are completely different to driving a car or wearing a seatbelt. If you thought your wheel might fall off you wouldn’t drive on the A19.
Nobody should be taking a vaccine which is causing blood clots without the problem being investigated thoroughly.
Its ok brushing it off until it’s you or your family who get the clotting.
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's the EU innit though? they are doing it to spite us...