As much crap as you like thread

[viv_andersons_nana]

You can't spend your way out of trouble when at 100% debt to GDP and when the rates on new debt are extremely high, and when rates on old debt are moving on to the new higher rates. You get railed in three different directions.

It's even harder to do this when you can't grow quick enough to bail out that debt. It's growth which has largely bailed out previous debt, but when your hands get tied around your back for growth, in many ways, then this becomes extremely difficult and long winded. This is even harder when coming off the back of what's gone on previous and when the BOE are asleep at the wheel (but this is often the case with the BOE, it's not a new thing).

Labour have inherited the ultimate nightmare situation, I've been saying this for years, before labour were even winning in the polls (about the time I backed them to win the GE). It was obvious to me that this was all coming, yet a lot still seem to be denying this is the case. I was also saying it's going to probably take a term to stop the decline and another before things actually got noticeably better.

You can create a wealth tax though.

 

[Andy_W]

The even more astounding thing is that if it is such a disaster why on earth didn't the Labour party put in their manifesto that a vote for Labour would be a vote for rejoining. The process to rejoin could have been done and dusted within this Parliament as we continue to be aligned in most areas.

They took the exact opposite position and said in terms no way to rejoining. They no doubt reflected that we can have our cake and eat it as an independent nation trading with the EU and many other countries worldwide with the USA currently on our radar for trade deal.

Thoughts?

Because loads of the population are still thick/ racist/ backwards, and a lot of them live in "red wall" areas. It doesn't take much to get this lot tilted, and switching sides away from Labour, as has been proven many times.

It would have been a practically guaranteed election loss, which is the exact reason why they didn't do it. As a hardcore remain and Labour voter this was plainly obvious to me, which is why I accept what they're doing with regards to the EU, for the time being. It might be something to look at in 5-15 years.

There were loads of Tories who don't/ didn't want hard brexit either, 75% of brexit voters didn't want hard brexit, yet still think they won. But, as a lot of them are already rich (or think they're middle class or higher) they're not bothered enough to switch sides to the left. Their pocket/ tax/ pensions/ house values will always rule over everything else. They don't seem that bothered about the NHS, Social care etc, until it comes to actually needing it themselves, which most will eventually.

 

[Andy_W]

You can create a wealth tax though.

Yeah, of course, that's what I want but it's hard to do when it's tied up in assets and shares or whatever, i.e taxing money which is being held, making more money. The "asset rich, cash poor" lot would cry about this, but everyone knows if they were that bothered they could just sell some stuff. Might lead to some sort of sell off, which would probably crash everything. I imagine that would be painful for a time, for all, but long term should be better for those less well off, or normal people.

I suppose the simplest way is to tax the things rich people buy more, so you would need like a sliding scale of sales tax, as value goes up or something like that. We're sort of doing that now with car tax, and we do it with stamp duty (albeit not enough for high end).

The easiest way is to tax at source, but if we did that now it would take a long time to play out. Sure, we may lose some millionaires and billionaires, but they're only paying ~20-30% tax anyway, and there are loads below them who would gladly take half of their spot and paying 50% tax on that half.

Could also do with just stopping things slip through the net, by rich folk creating companies for effectively personal life. It's easier to not pay the tax or shift it around with companies, like a massive tax dodge.

 

[speckyget]

PFI was a travesty but it kept the right-wing media (and their owners) onside. That was more important to Blair's vision.

Although I guess the desire to keep investments off balance sheet was partly the driver for such a perverse spending model.