Any runners out there?

SmallTown

SmallTown

Well-known member
I've ran long distance for years and years now but have noticed something wierd that has just started happening to me. I'm training for the (admittedly likely to be cancelled) GNR and I'm mixing long slower runs with little 5k sprints.

The 5k ones are odd. I give it my all and they feel utterly utterly brutal but: I'm nowhere near as fast as I should be when I do them and when I check my best rate it averages around 120bpm which seems incredibly low compared to the effort I'm actually feeling.

Has anyone else had this? Perceived effort being so much more then the measureable results through either heart rate or pace?
 
Isn't it just your physiology and muscle type that's causing the issue?
If you are basically used to endurance efforts then it's not going to be easy to adapt to more explosive efforts.
 
SmallTown said:
I've ran long distance for years and years now but have noticed something wierd that has just started happening to me. I'm training for the (admittedly likely to be cancelled) GNR and I'm mixing long slower runs with little 5k sprints.

The 5k ones are odd. I give it my all and they feel utterly utterly brutal but: I'm nowhere near as fast as I should be when I do them and when I check my best rate it averages around 120bpm which seems incredibly low compared to the effort I'm actually feeling.

Has anyone else had this? Perceived effort being so much more then the measureable results through either heart rate or pace?
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I had something similar but realised my tracker was rubbish/inaccurate.
 
As dooderoni says, its a very different type of running if you are training for long distance and only doing long distance running. A lot of your mentality in those runs as well is geared towards hitting the longer distance and not the short bursts of speed.

If you look at most HM/M training plans they wont just push the distance, but they will regularly include shorter, faster runs in the mix to give you that balance of tempo and distance training.

I also find having a specific BPM Playlist for the pace I want to run at. If you search google there are BPM to pace charts and spotify is awash with specific BPM playlists, its easier to follow a cadence like that. BPM as in music beats not the heart rate beats you referred to in your post, obviously.

I'd look at an analytics suite like SmashRun where you can import all your runs, and you can then compare runs over similar distances and see improvements in pace etc and how they stack up agains the rest (it's also free)
 
dooderooni said:
Isn't it just your physiology and muscle type that's causing the issue?
If you are basically used to endurance efforts then it's not going to be easy to adapt to more explosive efforts.
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I read an article to say if you want to get a fast at a 5km you need to do long slow miles as this builds you endurance for the explosive stuff

5km race effort is brutal, it’s not enjoyable you basically 80% for 5km. It’s better than intervals mind.

Are you saying your average bpm Over the run is 120 bpm
 
GazC_MFC said:
I read an article to say if you want to get a fast at a 5km you need to do long slow miles as this builds you endurance for the explosive stuff

5km race effort is brutal, it’s not enjoyable you basically 80% for 5km. It’s better than intervals mind.

Are you saying your average bpm Over the run is 120 bpm
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Good you may be right, I'm defo not build for speed. However the "fast" 5ks I'm doing now are still shy of the half marathon pace I need to achieve. so it should be well within me, just a massive struggle at the moment.

Yes Gaz my average BPM is 120. when I do my long runs, even though slower, I get an average BPM quite a bit higher.
 
I'm an endurance coach I would suggest doing about 80% of your running at a comfortable aerobic pace. Don't keep hammering fast 5ks, you will probably ruin yourself. For variety do a couple of fartlek type runs a week. Maybe 1 5k threshold run every 2 to 3 weeks. Try 2 to 3k warm up at very easy pace. Pick a route that has some strava segments of varying lengths ... uphill, downhill etc. Hit those hard but make sure that there is adequate recovery between them. Varied from 400m to 1k. Then warm down. I'd be interested to see what you can do if you warm up for 3k, then run 1k very hard, then recovery, then hard 1k recover etc, 3 cycles. Then warm down for 2k. If you can do those, pm me how you got on with the 1ks, whst psce you could sustain, how it felt and what your heart rate is.
Check your heart rate monitor. Is it in your watch or a chest strap? And Paterson's point is quite valid ... I'm recovering from a "bug" and 8 weeks on have not recovered full lung capacity. If you do have a bug, or have had one, running can be a risky proposition. If the inability to raise your heart rate persists at all, I'd see a doc.
 
Borolad I run 5K's 3/4times a week, late fifties , should I vary my pace? Not fast 28/29 mintestinal, what would you recommend please?
 
Maccarone said:
Borolad I run 5K's 3/4times a week, late fifties , should I vary my pace? Not fast 28/29 mintestinal, what would you recommend please?
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Do you want to run faster? If not, just enjoy it at your current pace.

If you do want to run faster, what distance are you aiming to improve? My main road running distances were 10k and 10 miles. I'd run 100+ miles per week, 365 days a year. 5 miles to 20 miles. Twice a day three days a week, 5 miles to work, 13 mile's home. Twice a week I'd run 6 miles with 400m jog, 400m flat out, repeat, then the same with 600m, then the same with 800m, then jog 800m and flat out mile to finish. I got my 10mile times down from 65 minutes to 54 minutes and sub 75 minute half marathons.

Now I just run to enjoy it!

In terms of heart rate, I just monitored resting heart rate which fell from 42 to 34 bpm.

For fast 5ks you need to run further for stamina and have a few speed sessions a week as well.
 
Unless you're a pro athlete, why would you even bother recording heart rate when training? Rely on your instincts instead of potentially holding yourself back looking at your heart rate.
 
Fluffycarpet said:
Unless you're a pro athlete, why would you even bother recording heart rate when training? Rely on your instincts instead of potentially holding yourself back looking at your heart rate.
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You certainly dont need to be a pro athlete to benefit from tracking your heart rate. not sure how it holds you back?
 
Maccarone said:
Borolad I run 5K's 3/4times a week, late fifties , should I vary my pace? Not fast 28/29 mintestinal, what would you recommend please?
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I would always recommend varied training. First and foremost for enjoyment. Training should always be geared towards what you want the results to be. For someone like you, my guess is that health benefits, fitness and enjoyment are most important. Would I be right? If I am, then mix it up. Run in places that lift you... country trails etc and avoid "chore" running. If you are finishing your runs thinking "That was lovely, I could do that again" you are probably on the right track.
 
Fluffycarpet said:
I didn't say it couldn't be benificial. But relying on a heart rate motitor for your runs which probably isn't totally accurate is daft. Use your own instincts to get the best out of your training.
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This is true at all levels, from international athlete to casual jogger.
 
borolad259 said:
I would always recommend varied training. First and foremost for enjoyment. Training should always be geared towards what you want the results to be. For someone like you, my guess is that health benefits, fitness and enjoyment are most important. Would I be right? If I am, then mix it up. Run in places that lift you... country trails etc and avoid "chore" running. If you are finishing your runs thinking "That was lovely, I could do that again" you are probably on the right track.
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This is absolutely right, I find running trials the pressure of the clock disappears, I go out and immerse myself and enjoy. It’s up and down so natural interval training too, in a sense.

I struggle to reign my speed road running. Find it really hard to slow myself down.

I want a sub 20 5k, I know I probably need to do 25 miles a week to achieve it. We’re in between 15-20 at the moment.
 
Fluffycarpet said:
I didn't say it couldn't be benificial. But relying on a heart rate motitor for your runs which probably isn't totally accurate is daft. Use your own instincts to get the best out of your training.
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Ye I measure hr when I run, but i don’t use it, other than I’m a nerd a like to analyse data.
 
GazC_MFC said:
This is absolutely right, I find running trials the pressure of the clock disappears, I go out and immerse myself and enjoy. It’s up and down so natural interval training too, in a sense.

I struggle to reign my speed road running. Find it really hard to slow myself down.

I want a sub 20 5k, I know I probably need to do 25 miles a week to achieve it. We’re in between 15-20 at the moment.
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I had the same thing about trying to get back below 20 mins for a 5k (in my late fifties). Not sure why, it's a bit arbitrary. It spoiled my enjoyment for a while. In my younger days I was nearer 16 mins. But the way I would suggest that you get there is by running 1k segments on your trail fartlek runs (after a 2k warm up) and have good recovery between. Riverside paths/canal tow paths are good for this kind of thing. Get so that you can maintain 6 minute mile pace comfortably over the 1ks first. When you can do that, see how you are at 5k. Hammering out 5ks at threshold pace every week is a good way to harm yourself in my experience ... you'll show improvement and then plateau.

Most of my coaching with young elite runners usually involves getting them to slow down a bit, and do fast work in smaller, concentrated doses.
 
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