angela raynor calling tories scum

Lefty said:
Such a lot goes into peoples choices more than that. It’s psychological and emotional, not logical and reasoned unfortunately.

This has become more of the case as society has generally prospered, since economics has ceased to be a matter of life and death for most.

So now it is much more about which tribe you feel you belong to.

The Tories are good at aspirational and they are good at provoking fear, which is something their voters are quick to respond to, rather than calm logical reasoning.
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Society generally prospered? Really?
 
NoloBoro said:
Society generally prospered? Really?
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The poor used to go in workhouses. Until 1910 the old didn’t have pensions to help support them in retirement. Until the creation of the NHS people, most people, had to decide if they needed to do without mended clothes or adequate food and instead put their spare shilling aside in case the doctor was needed. That’s not that long ago and people lived with those fears. They don’t mostly have those existential things to worry about. It’s getting worse and for some it is choices like that, but that used to be most of us so far more people could empathise.

Now the poor have a creaking health service, they have some benefits, homes usually. The amazing scientific advances mean that they have their TV entertainment and the internet to distract them from their hardships and worries just enough to not have time to do something about the positions the few even worse off find themselves in. That is left to the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’ as the Tories sneeringly label those well off enough, educated enough and empathetic enough to care.
 
The rich have got much richer, the poor are roughly where they are in the 1970s - hence wealth and income inequality have increased signifcantly in the UK. This is most evident in the so called left behind areas like Teesside which is Conservative at present (4 seat to 2).

My advice to any Labour leader is concentrate on what you are going to do about it, and get that message across or name call all you like and stay in opposition. As Lefty says get Smart - slogans and rallying cries like "For the Many not the Few" etc

or

"I have a dream...that one day in our wealthy country (of the UK), we will have fewer food banks than McDonalds. You can make that dream reality, by backing me into power"
 
zzzzz said:
How many 'working class' are left? Enough to vote a Labour

How many 'working class' are left? Enough to vote a Labour Govt in?
Nowhere near.
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Interesting question - Working class to me are people who can't afford private services, who earn less than £25k a year, who have savings of less than £16k. who own a property worth less than £200k or rent, who probably have a lot of debt too say £100k pf mortgages and loans - Is that around 60% of the UK population?
 
Redwurzel said:
Interesting question - Working class to me are people who can't afford private services, who earn less than £25k a year, who have savings of less than £16k. who own a property worth less than £200k or rent, who probably have a lot of debt too say £100k pf mortgages and loans - Is that around 60% of the UK population?
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Average salary in the UK £31461
Average house price £265668
64% of homes are owned
Average savings £5k

Using you benchmark I'd suggest it doesn't come to 60%?

Last poll I could fine was 2017 where 48% of folk in the UK considered themselves to be working class.

For me one benchmark for the Labour support is Trade Union Membership which has seen a steady decline since the 80s.where it's almost been halved except for a slight increase in the last 4 years.

IMO unless Labour appeals to the 'middle classes' they will stay in opposition at best for decades.
 
Redwurzel said:
My advice to any Labour leader is concentrate on what you are going to do about it, and get that message across or name call all you like and stay in opposition. As Lefty says get Smart - slogans and rallying cries like "For the Many not the Few" etc

or

"I have a dream...that one day in our wealthy country (of the UK), we will have fewer food banks than McDonalds. You can make that dream reality, by backing me into power"
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I think "for the many, not the few" was a good slogan. It was a good summary of what all the policies were at the time, and it's done enough that you remember it now 18 months on!

I think the current slogan is "win the future".
 
SuperStu said:
I think "for the many, not the few" was a good slogan. It was a good summary of what all the policies were at the time, and it's done enough that you remember it now 18 months on!

I think the current slogan is "win the future".
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We need something new in that regard. I liked "for the many..." too but the evidence says we still got slaughtered.
 
Germany had elections yesterday. Social Democrats gained a small majority. A number of coalitions are available to them. Including one possibility of a SDP/Liberal/Green majority government, without the CDU

Lefty said:
I don’t mind playing dirty, I do mind playing stupid.
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What about playing smart?
If this current dangerous populist junta get their way, and with our flexible constitutional arrangements. who can stop them, the possibility of an opposition party forming a government is becoming more remote, and absolutely certain if Scotland gets gone.
FPTP is the problem. The Tories are in the process of gerrymandering the constituency boundaries, again and using a nonexistent problem to disenfranchise between 2-3 million people.
The Labour Party doesn’t mind the system, thinking they can use when it’s their turn again.
The opposition must form some of alliance to counter this. I would only really be interested now in voting for getting rid of FPTP.
Yeah, I know it’s not going to happen..
 
1finny said:
She called them scummy because that is what she believes.
She was being honest.
Johnson et al have been bashed for lying - quite rightly too.
AR comes along with an honestly held view and is taken down.
’She shouldn’t have said it’ - Despite honestly believing it ???
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I don't think it matters that she believes this or that it may be true. It isn't very professional and will very likely backfire.

Win an election on policy not name calling as that just won't work.

Talking on Saturday to a tory Voter he thought that we make life too easy for those who s don't want to work. He had to be disavowed of that notion as name calling the tories will have no effect on his voting intentions at all.

Show that conservative borrowing always outstrips Labour borrowing. Show that the economy usually does much better under labour than Conservative. Demonstrate that the tories have stripped our essential services to the bone.

Have a plan to tackle the mess that i's brexit.
 
Laughing said:
I don't think it matters that she believes this or that it may be true. It isn't very professional and will very likely backfire.

Win an election on policy not name calling as that just won't work.

Talking on Saturday to a tory Voter he thought that we make life too easy for those who s don't want to work. He had to be disavowed of that notion as name calling the tories will have no effect on his voting intentions at all.

Show that conservative borrowing always outstrips Labour borrowing. Show that the economy usually does much better under labour than Conservative. Demonstrate that the tories have stripped our essential services to the bone.

Have a plan to tackle the mess that i's brexit.
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There’s been very little you’ve said recently that I have agreed with but on this one I do. Angela Rayner appeals to base voters excellently. However is she a vote winner to appeal to those the Labour Party need to win an election? I don’t think so.
 
Laughing said:
I don't think it matters that she believes this or that it may be true. It isn't very professional and will very likely backfire.

Win an election on policy not name calling as that just won't work.

Talking on Saturday to a tory Voter he thought that we make life too easy for those who s don't want to work. He had to be disavowed of that notion as name calling the tories will have no effect on his voting intentions at all.

Show that conservative borrowing always outstrips Labour borrowing. Show that the economy usually does much better under labour than Conservative. Demonstrate that the tories have stripped our essential services to the bone.

Have a plan to tackle the mess that i's brexit.
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I get where you are coming from apart from ‘win an election based on policies’

You win an election with media support.
Laughing said:
I don't think it matters that she believes this or that it may be true. It isn't very professional and will very likely backfire.

Win an election on policy not name calling as that just won't work.

Talking on Saturday to a tory Voter he thought that we make life too easy for those who s don't want to work. He had to be disavowed of that notion as name calling the tories will have no effect on his voting intentions at all.

Show that conservative borrowing always outstrips Labour borrowing. Show that the economy usually does much better under labour than Conservative. Demonstrate that the tories have stripped our essential services to the bone.

Have a plan to tackle the mess that i's brexit.
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I see where you are coming from and it is judgement call as to whether her outburst will have a +ve or -ve effect.
Personal view - doesn’t matter because Lab have little or no chance in the next election without forming a strong alliance with others.

One point I don’t believe is ‘win an election on your policies’. It is right in one respect - agree the policies that will get you the support of Murdoch, The Barclay’s et al and they will get you elected.
 
1finny said:
I get where you are coming from apart from ‘win an election based on policies’

You win an election with media support.


I see where you are coming from and it is judgement call as to whether her outburst will have a +ve or -ve effect.
Personal view - doesn’t matter because Lab have little or no chance in the next election without forming a strong alliance with others.

One point I don’t believe is ‘win an election on your policies’. It is right in one respect - agree the policies that will get you the support of Murdoch, The Barclay’s et al and they will get you elected.
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As Sunak was sitting next to Murdoch at a recent Family dinner gathering in Paris I suspect we know who will be getting that rag’s support at the next election.
 
Laughing said:
Win an election on policy not name calling as that just won't work
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What policies? Starmer's Labour only like to talk about what they won't do. Starmer said on Marr he won't nationalise energy (which was one of his pledges so he clearly lied to the party to get elected) and his shadow chancellor Reeves has been on BBC this morning saying they won't increase the top rate of income tax (which was another of his pledges so it's a pattern of lying). Both policies that polling shows have majority support in the country.

He's the worst of both worlds. No charisma to pull voters in, and no policies to try and influence the direction the country is going.
 
Good on Angela, Call the Tories for what they are.
No one turned a hair when Johnson was going on about "Picanino's, water melon smiles, letterboxes- or hiding in a fridge, or cheating on his wife when she was having cancer treatment, or not knowing how many kids he has got. Or claiming he cannot live off £150,000 a year while slashing Universal Credit to those who are literally desperate. No comments on how the Test and Trace system has cost so much or how so much of what it did cost go into his mates pockets. Or what an absolute failure that was. Nowt being said about
160,000 excess deaths. No comments on the nurses "pay rise" while his mates were trousering more tax payers money.
On reflection, I think Angela is wrong- the Tories are far worse than scum. They are EVIL
 
SuperStu said:
shadow chancellor Reeves has been on BBC this morning saying they won't increase the top rate of income tax (which was another of his pledges so it's a pattern of lying)
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No she didn't. She said she had no plans to increase the rates of income tax if Labour wins.
 
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