And now doctors threaten to strike.
- Thread starter Trug
- Start date
Caesium137
Well-known member
Poor buggers, my GP barely broke £132k last year......
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's looking that way. They aren't even going to make it to a winter of discontent at this rate. You've got to hand it to the Tories, it takes a special level of neglect and fascism to get the british public excited. They've nailed it
S7DiscoDown
Well-known member
I didn't know we had any. It must be hard taking zoom calls all day
Today I had a scan that I've been waiting 12 weeks for canceled. Just 4 hours before the appointment. That was nice as I'd taken the day off work.
So I'm not feeling the NHS today
Today I had a scan that I've been waiting 12 weeks for canceled. Just 4 hours before the appointment. That was nice as I'd taken the day off work.
So I'm not feeling the NHS today
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
Not the doctors or nurses fault.I didn't know we had any. It must be hard taking zoom calls all day
Today I had a scan that I've been waiting 12 weeks for canceled. Just 4 hours before the appointment. That was nice as I'd taken the day off work.
So I'm not feeling the NHS today
It's de fefels
The argument that pay rises in line with inflation would cause further inflation has been claimed quite a lot during these debates. Inflation currently stands at 9.1%. I wonder how much in percentage terms giving workers a pay increase in line with this 9.1% would add to that figure? Given the amount of debate surrounding this someone must have done the figures.
Paying a Dr 9% doesn’t lead to additional input costs that supposedly can lead to inflation in so far that Dr’s wages aren’t met by people who have to put their prices up to meet the additional cost.
The chancellor justified giving pensioners a full inflation pension rise on that logic.
The chancellor justified giving pensioners a full inflation pension rise on that logic.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Staff in the NHS have taken a pay-cut over the last 12 years.
There is a shortage of 40,000+ nurses, and a chronic shortage of European and non-European healthcare support workers since the Government sent them back over the water post-brexit.
Services have been cherry-picked by privatisation - leaving those of us who cant afford to pay in the private sector - waiting in long lines and seeing a major reduction in basic healthcare.
Its deliberate policy - and anyone who tells us otherwise is a liar.
There is a shortage of 40,000+ nurses, and a chronic shortage of European and non-European healthcare support workers since the Government sent them back over the water post-brexit.
Services have been cherry-picked by privatisation - leaving those of us who cant afford to pay in the private sector - waiting in long lines and seeing a major reduction in basic healthcare.
Its deliberate policy - and anyone who tells us otherwise is a liar.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
If it’s GPs, I’m not sure we’d notice!
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
I hope nobody is believing the figures being mentioned in the Tory press. We now know the lies being spread by them about the railway workers.
DON'T BELIEVE THE TORY PRESS
DON'T BELIEVE THE TORY PRESS
Whilst I will be very grateful for the rise, ( and I DO rely on my state pension to add to my small, other pensions to help me pay my way), I am told that the cause of this current inflation is excessive profits-
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
As a genuine question, why do you feel ‘they’ were sent back? Over 5m EU citizens applied for, and were granted, leave to remain.
r00fie1
Well-known member
We are talking here of the right to work in the Health and Social Care Sector and its impact on the NHS and Social Care in UK:
"The majority of NHS staff in England are British – but around 15% are not. Around 190,000 out of 1.35 million staff report a non-British nationality. This is 14.6% of all staff for whom a nationality is known, or one in seven. Between them, these staff hold over 200 different nationalities. Over 70,000 are EU nationals – 5.4% of NHS staff in England. Over 75,000 (5.8%) report an Asian nationality. This data is correct at March 2021." [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/]
* Since Brexit, Social Care Workers from the EU are no longer automatically allowed to work in the UK and have to apply for a visa. With the paperwork and processing, uncertainty over right to remain has meant thousands of care-workers choosing to stay away from the UK. Many have chosen to work in Eire - with guarantee of residence without the uncertainty. 1 in 20 Care Workers were EEA migrants - many without British Citizenship. Leaving the EU has significantly reduced those volunteering to work in the UK:
"Over the past decade, there has been a significant increase in the proportion of European migrants in the social care workforce. In the first part of 2016 alone, over 80% of all migrant care workers who moved to England to take on a social care role were from Europe. Any restrictions to the migration of European citizens would likely reduce the overall number of workers in the social care sector, making it even harder to recruit and retain the necessary numbers of staff." [https://www.independentage.org/poli...-and-future-of-migrants-social-care-workforce]
* In a sector with unfilled vacancies running at 12%, there is a chronic shortage of care-workers, who were previously from non-EU countries and those from EEA countries. Care work is notoriously low-paid and relies on workers from abroad to help fill vacancies. The NHS Charge for foreign workers also acts as a barrier to employment - with EU NHS workers, not only paying income tax, but paying for the right to access NHS services - in the very hospitals and services in which they work.
* A report from the Nuffield Trust in December 2021 highlights:
"Staffing in health and social care services is the most pressing concern following the introduction of new immigration rules, adding to the burden the health system has been grappling with capacity for many years. The situation in social care is the most urgent where new immigration rules effectively halt immigration from the EEA." [https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/ne...ans-leave-nhs-uncertain-of-post-brexit-future]
* The BMA highlight the [post-Brexit] barriers facing the right of qualified EU General Practitioners and Specialist Consultants to work in the UK. This has lead to those who would previously come to work in the UK working elsewhere - including the Irish Republic: Applying to work as a Doctor in the uk [https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-s...plying-to-work-as-a-european-doctor-in-the-uk].
* Effectively, removal freedom-of-movement [in EU] and the impacts of new immigration controls on foreign nationals - without British Citizenship - working in the Uk, has meant the Health and Social Care Sector has been deprived of thousands of potential qualified and skilled practitioners. In reality, immigration and citizenship barriers to employment in UK for those practitioners, has meant turning around ["sent back"] choosing to work in other EU countries and beyond.
* The effect of the Brexit referendum and its impact on Nurse registrants from the EU was almost instant [see 2017/18] - as records from Health.Uk demonstrate. These figures are pre-pandemic. The Government has since launched a campaign to encourage qualified and skilled workers to the UK [to work in the Health and social Care Sector] from outside the EU. [https://www.health.org.uk/chart/cha...w-nurses-coming-from-the-eu-to-work-in-the-uk]:
* It must, however, be remembered that with the 40,000 shortage of Nurses, there are also those leaving the service every year, who need to be replaced. Similarly with General Practitioners and Qualified Specialist Clinicians. It takes three years for a Nurse to become qualified and over 5 years to train a General Practitioner in the UK. This is a key factor to take into account, when the Health Minister talks about creating 50,000 nurses[?]. Over 60% of that figure is an expectation [not guaranteed] that those considering leaving the service will be retained !
* Doctors pay to be trained - its not free. Neither is Nursing.
* Its worth highlighting Nurses pay, has seen a reduction in real terms [as has GP`s] over the last ten years+.
Bearing in mind the cost of training is over £20,000 in Student Fees [not including living expenses: Rent / Mortgage/Childcare/Food/Power/Transport/Clothing.etc]
Where next for NHS nurses' pay?
This analysis looks at the impact of high inflation and other factors affecting nurse pay, and considers how the current approach to pay determination could be improved.
Laughing
Well-known member
If my home country was somewhere in the EU and I was working in Britain as, well anything, I would go home too irrespective of brexit. Our country is crap at the moment. Why would anyone stay? Add in the paperwork required to live and work in the uk, who can blame any sensible person for thinking "nah not for me".
On the subject of doctors striking, they have my support. A junior doctor newly qualified earns 29k a year. This is after 6 years of uni and in excess of 100k debt.
On the subject of doctors striking, they have my support. A junior doctor newly qualified earns 29k a year. This is after 6 years of uni and in excess of 100k debt.
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
Thanks for the comprehensive response. No doubt Brexit contributed, but the salary is also a significant factor. Were these to be £50k roles, I’m confident most would be filled, whether by UK or EU citizens. Just a further example of the twisted norms of this (and other capitalist) societies. There’s research quoted by Naomi Klein (can’t remember which book), that assesses utility against reward (salary) from the viewpoint of society; bottom of the matrix was advertising and top, dustbin men.We are talking here of the right to work in the Health and Social Care Sector and its impact on the NHS and Social Care in UK:
"The majority of NHS staff in England are British – but around 15% are not. Around 190,000 out of 1.35 million staff report a non-British nationality. This is 14.6% of all staff for whom a nationality is known, or one in seven. Between them, these staff hold over 200 different nationalities. Over 70,000 are EU nationals – 5.4% of NHS staff in England. Over 75,000 (5.8%) report an Asian nationality. This data is correct at March 2021." [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/]
View attachment 40559View attachment 40560
* Since Brexit, Social Care Workers from the EU are no longer automatically allowed to work in the UK and have to apply for a visa. With the paperwork and processing, uncertainty over right to remain has meant thousands of care-workers choosing to stay away from the UK. Many have chosen to work in Eire - with guarantee of residence without the uncertainty. 1 in 20 Care Workers were EEA migrants - many without British Citizenship. Leaving the EU has significantly reduced those volunteering to work in the UK:
"Over the past decade, there has been a significant increase in the proportion of European migrants in the social care workforce. In the first part of 2016 alone, over 80% of all migrant care workers who moved to England to take on a social care role were from Europe. Any restrictions to the migration of European citizens would likely reduce the overall number of workers in the social care sector, making it even harder to recruit and retain the necessary numbers of staff." [https://www.independentage.org/poli...-and-future-of-migrants-social-care-workforce]
* In a sector with unfilled vacancies running at 12%, there is a chronic shortage of care-workers, who were previously from non-EU countries and those from EEA countries. Care work is notoriously low-paid and relies on workers from abroad to help fill vacancies. The NHS Charge for foreign workers also acts as a barrier to employment - with EU NHS workers, not only paying income tax, but paying for the right to access NHS services - in the very hospitals and services in which they work.
* A report from the Nuffield Trust in December 2021 highlights:
"Staffing in health and social care services is the most pressing concern following the introduction of new immigration rules, adding to the burden the health system has been grappling with capacity for many years. The situation in social care is the most urgent where new immigration rules effectively halt immigration from the EEA." [https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/ne...ans-leave-nhs-uncertain-of-post-brexit-future]
* The BMA highlight the [post-Brexit] barriers facing the right of qualified EU General Practitioners and Specialist Consultants to work in the UK. This has lead to those who would previously come to work in the UK working elsewhere - including the Irish Republic: Applying to work as a Doctor in the uk [https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-s...plying-to-work-as-a-european-doctor-in-the-uk].
* Effectively, removal freedom-of-movement [in EU] and the impacts of new immigration controls on foreign nationals - without British Citizenship - working in the Uk, has meant the Health and Social Care Sector has been deprived of thousands of potential qualified and skilled practitioners. In reality, immigration and citizenship barriers to employment in UK for those practitioners, has meant turning around ["sent back"] choosing to work in other EU countries and beyond.
* The effect of the Brexit referendum and its impact on Nurse registrants from the EU was almost instant [see 2017/18] - as records from Health.Uk demonstrate. These figures are pre-pandemic. The Government has since launched a campaign to encourage qualified and skilled workers to the UK [to work in the Health and social Care Sector] from outside the EU. [https://www.health.org.uk/chart/cha...w-nurses-coming-from-the-eu-to-work-in-the-uk]:
View attachment 40562
* It must, however, be remembered that with the 40,000 shortage of Nurses, there are also those leaving the service every year, who need to be replaced. Similarly with General Practitioners and Qualified Specialist Clinicians. It takes three years for a Nurse to become qualified and over 5 years to train a General Practitioner in the UK. This is a key factor to take into account, when the Health Minister talks about creating 50,000 nurses[?]. Over 60% of that figure is an expectation [not guaranteed] that those considering leaving the service will be retained !
* Doctors pay to be trained - its not free. Neither is Nursing.
* Its worth highlighting Nurses pay, has seen a reduction in real terms [as has GP`s] over the last ten years+.
Bearing in mind the cost of training is over £20,000 in Student Fees [not including living expenses: Rent / Mortgage/Childcare/Food/Power/Transport/Clothing.etc]
View attachment 40563Where next for NHS nurses' pay?
This analysis looks at the impact of high inflation and other factors affecting nurse pay, and considers how the current approach to pay determination could be improved.www.health.org.uk
r00fie1
Well-known member
Sorry if it was a bit long-winded, but as we all know, its a bit more complex than the politicians with their slogans would like us to believe.
It kept me awake from 04:08 hrs.
