Academy Players

Chappy112 said:
Compare it to other clubs, I think we hold up pretty well against similar clubs?

Even just comparing against Sunderland and Newcastle we're doing fine.

Sort by market value if it isn't already.

We had 4 academy products in the squad for the playoff final. People expect too much I think.
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The problem with this comparison is it doesn't take into account the most recent 5 years when our academy has fell off a cliff in my opinion.

Sol Brynn made his debut for Queen of the South approximately 5 years ago on 21st August 2021.

After August 2021, the only Boro academy player to make a professional debut, who is currently worth more than 500k, is William Kokolo (valued at 500k).

Next summer, unless something drastically changes, no former academy player over the past 5 seasons will be currently valued over 500k.

In that same 5 year time frame, Sunderland have produced Chris Rigg and Tom Watson who are valued at £32m.
Newcastle have produced 5 players over 500k valued at £33m including Lewis Miley, Bobby Clark and Alex Murphy.
Leeds have produced 9 players in that category worth over £60m including Archie Gray, Elia Caprile, Mateo Joseph, and Cody Drameh.
 
Ash88 said:
The problem with this comparison is it doesn't take into account the most recent 5 years when our academy has fell off a cliff in my opinion.

Sol Brynn made his debut for Queen of the South approximately 5 years ago on 21st August 2021.

After August 2021, the only Boro academy player to make a professional debut, who is currently worth more than 500k, is William Kokolo (valued at 500k).

Next summer, unless something drastically changes, no former academy player over the past 5 seasons will be currently valued over 500k.

In that same 5 year time frame, Sunderland have produced Chris Rigg and Tom Watson who are valued at £32m.
Newcastle have produced 5 players over 500k valued at £33m including Lewis Miley, Bobby Clark and Alex Murphy.
Leeds have produced 9 players in that category worth over £60m including Archie Gray, Elia Caprile, Mateo Joseph, and Cody Drameh.
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Caprile and Jospeh aren't an academy products of Leeds. They joined as Professionals after their 17th birthday's. You are comparing apples and oranges. Joseph or Caprile are of the same mould as Isiah Jones or Djed Spence. Same with Murphy at Newcastle.
 
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MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Caprile and Jospeh aren't an academy products of Leeds. They joined as Professionalsafter his 17th birthday. You are comparing apples and oranges. Joseph or Caprile are of the same mould as Isiah Jones or Djed Spence.
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True but I think his point still stands that the academy has fallen off a cliff with quality of players being developed. Maybe there is a more generation on the horizon. I always feel a squad should have space for 3 youngsters to be in and around and getting minutes. Maybe that will be Cruz Ibeh, Joe Roberts and Harley Hunt
 
I thought we had a decent group with Sonny Finch, Ajay Matthews, AJ Bridge, Law McCabe, Fin Cartwright (slightly younger)

But doesn’t seemed to have happened for any of them. Yet.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Caprile and Jospeh aren't an academy products of Leeds. They joined as Professionals after their 17th birthday's. You are comparing apples and oranges. Joseph or Caprile are of the same mould as Isiah Jones or Djed Spence. Same with Murphy at Newcastle.
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It doesn't matter if they were signed as professionals, most of our 18 year olds get professional contracts, we've just gave one to Lucas Harrison last month.

Caprile didn't play a single game for Leeds. He was signed for Leeds U21 where he played 19 times.
Jospeh was signed from Espanyol U19s to Leeds U21s. He played for Leeds academy teams 38 times before moving up to the first team.

Alex Murphy played 40 times for Newcastle U21 before making his Newcastle debut - He was signed for the U21, not the first team.

An academy player doesn't need to come through the youth ranks, they can be signed at academy level. Otherwise, we can also discount...
Harley Hunt - signed from Swindon.
Owen Foster - signed from Hull U21.
Archie Baptiste - signed from Spurs U18.
Jack Daley - signed from low leagues, Newcastle Blue Star.
Braydon Johnson - signed from the NLS.
Josh Dede - signed from Celtic.
and probably loads of others.
 
Ash88 said:
It doesn't matter if they were signed as professionals, most of our 18 year olds get professional contracts, we've just gave one to Lucas Harrison last month.

Caprile didn't play a single game for Leeds. He was signed for Leeds U21 where he played 19 times.
Jospeh was signed from Espanyol U19s to Leeds U21s. He played for Leeds academy teams 38 times before moving up to the first team.

Alex Murphy played 40 times for Newcastle U21 before making his Newcastle debut - He was signed for the U21, not the first team.

An academy player doesn't need to come through the youth ranks, they can be signed at academy level. Otherwise, we can also discount...
Harley Hunt - signed from Swindon.
Owen Foster - signed from Hull U21.
Archie Baptiste - signed from Spurs U18.
Jack Daley - signed from low leagues, Newcastle Blue Star.
Braydon Johnson - signed from the NLS.
Josh Dede - signed from Celtic.
and probably loads of others.
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Of course it matters. You are saying Boro academy is crap becaue we haven't produced as good players as leeds, and then in your example cited players who didnt come through leeds academy.

Signing for someone at 17 or 18 doesn't make them an academy player. Bailey Palmer wont be a Brighton academy product.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Of course it matters. You are saying Boro academy is crap becaue we haven't produced as good players as leeds, and then in your example cited players who didnt come through leeds academy.
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I'm not saying we're crap because we haven't produced these players from young ages. I'm including all academy players, either came through the youth ranks, or purchased from other clubs.

I would have included Djed Spence in exactly the same way - but he fell outside my 5 year example.

MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Signing for someone at 17 or 18 doesn't make them an academy player. Bailey Palmer wont be a Brighton academy product.
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It does. Harley Hunt is an academy player. We signed him from Swindon for Boro U21s with the hope he will one day become a first team player.

Bailey Palmer came through our academy from a young age, now he's going through Brightons academy from U18 to U21. He is a product of both academies.

By your logic, we'd have hardly any players. ~50% of our current U21s have been purchased from elsewhere at some point. I think we got Eric Hamelberg from Fulham U16s.
 
Ash88 said:
I'm not saying we're crap because we haven't produced these players from young ages. I'm including all academy players, either came through the youth ranks, or purchased from other clubs.

I would have included Djed Spence in exactly the same way - but he fell outside my 5 year example.



It does. Harley Hunt is an academy player. We signed him from Swindon for Boro U21s with the hope he will one day become a first team player.

Bailey Palmer came through our academy from a young age, now he's going through Brightons academy from U18 to U21. He is a product of both academies.

By your logic, we'd have hardly any players. ~50% of our current U21s have been purchased from elsewhere at some point. I think we got Eric Hamelberg from Fulham U16s.
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We are getting bogged down by semantics. But in footballing terms you cease to be an academy footballer once you have signed a professional terms. Which is at any point after your 17th birthday.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
We are getting bogged down by semantics. But in footballing terms you cease to be an academy footballer once you have signed a professional terms. Which is at any point after your 17th birthday.
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I think the semantics you're getting bogged down by is my use of the word academy team instead of U21 team.

My point is, and has always been, that our U21 team has not produced any decent professional footballers in 5 years (since Brynn made his debut).

I didn't specify any criteria to that. It could be players who have came through pre-academy, played for our U12s, or players we've signed to be part of the U21 team.
 
The one former Academy player, now U/21 that impressed me most, albeit in the only game I have seen him in (Hartlepool friendly), so not a significant number was Rio Patterson-Powell. He had pace, power and liked a tackle, got up and down the right flank, would like to see him given opportunities from our 1st team bench, if that performance I mentioned was more the norm that is.
 
StrelectricDave said:
The one former Academy player, now U/21 that impressed me most, albeit in the only game I have seen him in (Hartlepool friendly), so not a significant number was Rio Patterson-Powell. He had pace, power and liked a tackle, got up and down the right flank, would like to see him given opportunities from our 1st team bench, if that performance I mentioned was more the norm that is.
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As above though, he had a loan spell in the national league and got about 20 mins.

I think he is a bit lightweight which is a recurring issue with young players - they have talent but can't compete physically against men. Another reason why loans are good.
 
It seems like we are absolutely terrible at getting our young players decent loans. They all seem to go out on loan and barely play, every season.
 
I seen Max Howells got released, watched this kid alot over the years when he was at Stockton Town, my son had the job of marking him a fair bit over the years, his father held off for a while before he let him joint Middlesbrough academy..incredibly quick over 10 yards, you blinked and he was gone, great player, .Real shame, but like all lads of his stature, you have to be very special to make it as a senior pro..
 
Mysonpat. said:
I seen Max Howells got released, watched this kid alot over the years when he was at Stockton Town, my son had the job of marking him a fair bit over the years, his father held off for a while before he let him joint Middlesbrough academy..incredibly quick over 10 yards, you blinked and he was gone, great player, .Real shame, but like all lads of his stature, you have to be very special to make it as a senior pro..
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He did well at Darlington - He'll probably find himself a club in the NL or NLN
 
AytonMews said:
Went down an AJ Bridge google rabbit hole

Played 15 times and won the Irish 2nd division on loan at Cork City. Who are managed by…. Barry Robson 😮
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I was talking to James his father a few months ago, he doing really well and enjoying it in Ireland, possibly back with Norwich next season.
James Bridge was my sons manager at Boro Rangers for a few years..excellent coach.
 
A lot of the best young players just get bought up by the top clubs now and they just hoard them. Obviously the palmer brothers went to Brighton. There was a rumour another player went to Arsenal I think
 
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