A long read on Labour

Blair took over from decades of Tory destruction of public services and industry. The unions I don't have too much sympathy for as they put the bullets in Thatcher's gun.

He renewed schools and hospitals , infrastructure increased police and NHS numbers, it took years

As I said before he stayed 3 years too long. And yes they should have renationalised the rail.

But he did it by winning Elections something Corbyn had no clue how to.
 
But he did it by winning Elections something Corbyn had no clue how to.
The leaked Labour report pass you by then? Despite the shenanigans of those Blairites at the top of the party actively throwing the election, Corbyn came within two or three thousand votes of winning in 2017 and then all of your wishes would have come true. What do you have to say to them?
 
Ok explain to me why Broadband is any different to any other product.

I would put the following into public ownership tomorrow;
Rail and buses
Water
electricity
Gas

I would close the HoL and replace with an elected chamber if say 100

I would keep the queen even though I have zero interest in her, but the majority do in a big way.

I would make private schools remove charity status
I would increase inheritance tax to 50%


But to get them you have to win an election .


TBH this whole post is bizarre to me. Haven't you spent this morning essentially arguing against having policies?

What if to to win an election you had to promise to privatise the NHS and police rather than nationalise any of the above, make loads more posho wealthy political appointments to the HoL, give a load of public funding to private schools, and reduce inheritance tax to 0%? Would it still be worthwhile? If so, why? If you can't do anything you planned to do, what's the point? If not, then you're in agreement with what others have been saying just with a barely different group of policies so what's been the point of these posts?

What this reads like to me now, is that your real complaint is that Labour leaders shouldn't stick to THEIR principles, in a bid to get elected, so that they can enact YOUR principles.
 
I will turn it around how do you get your policies without winning.

Wilson was probably the most successful obvious left wing candidate to win an election, he was surrounded by both left and right wing cabinet.

That was a long time ago. The reality today is that most people are very comfortable, to win them over you have to give a little.
 
I could win a labour election on here if my name was Trump, it's easy, the same people sit here agree with each other giving a like.

It's a lot harder winning over the centre, you seem to have no interest in them .
 
I will turn it around how do you get your policies without winning.

Wilson was probably the most successful obvious left wing candidate to win an election, he was surrounded by both left and right wing cabinet.

That was a long time ago. The reality today is that most people are very comfortable, to win them over you have to give a little.
There was the little matter of weapons of mass destruction and subsequent invasion of Iraq and the horrific consequences.
 
I will turn it around how do you get your policies without winning.

This is a daft question, because it wasn't an intentional part of Corbyn or his supporters plans to not win any of the elections they were involved in. They wanted to win. As BBG points out, they might have succeeded in 2017 without the Blairites in the party sabotaging - we'll never know.
 
We are in for a very tough time, a lot of people have been sat at home on their hands and havent been missed, lots of offices will not reopen. Brexit and a possible no deal looming and Trump out on his ear, we might struggle for the promises made to the galoot. Theres going to be a huge down turn recession , mass unemployment of middle management and office staff. Labour have a big opportunity, its still a while off mind, unless it goes really really bad next year.
 
How was losing the 2017 election a good result after a decade of austerity? FFS he was against May, she made Cameron look like a statesman.

Ok I give in a principled loss is better than a win.
 
I will turn it around how do you get your policies without winning.

Wilson was probably the most successful obvious left wing candidate to win an election, he was surrounded by both left and right wing cabinet.

That was a long time ago. The reality today is that most people are very comfortable, to win them over you have to give a little.

Like mentioned previously, it takes time. If you have two opposing viewpoints (left and right) then policies tend to fall in the centre to appease small sections of the opposition in order to get you over the line. If the left side then moves to the centre then your middle-ground becomes centre-right and that is where it is fought. The left then never gets any crumbs thrown in that direction. All of the left then votes for the centre solely because they are a better option than the actual right but without any of their policies being given a chance.

Corbyn hasn't won an election but he has moved the battle ground back to the centre. We have seen the Tories having to enact some socialist policies in order to win the centre-left voters. Blair never did that, he moved towards the centre so much that the leaders that followed him like Milliband were left proposing austerity as an election promise.

No party will stay in power for ever. Labour would get a chance to govern from the left if they stick with it. That is what happened with Cameron becoming PM. He wasn't offering anything radically different to Labour but enough people had had enough of Labour and they blamed them, wrongly, for the GFC.
 
How was losing the 2017 election a good result after a decade of austerity? FFS he was against May, she made Cameron look like a statesman.

Ok I give in a principled loss is better than a win.
Ask the Blairites that you love, they threw it. Does that not even bother you?
 
It might shock you to know I didn't read it.

That makes me one of the 99.67%

I never read Das Kapital all the way through , sorry about that.
 
It might shock you to know I didn't read it.

That makes me one of the 99.67%

I never read Das Kapital all the way through , sorry about that.
You did come across as someone who hadn't read it, but it sounds like you haven't read the long read at the top of this thread either. That explains why you were unaware that the Blairites at the top of the Labour Party were panicking when they thought they were going to win the GE in 2017. As the results were rolling in they thought all their nefarious hard work was for nothing.

Now that you know, what do you think?
 
I did read the long read. It was written by an individual with a set agenda, I read that in the same way I would have read Mein Kamp.

At no point did I think we would win the 2017 election even against such a poor opponent.

I get bored of saying it but until we stop insulting the centre ground we will never win again .
 
At no point did I think we would win the 2017 election even against such a poor opponent.
Not an emotion shared by the saboteurs who actively worked toward defeat and thought that their hard work had been for nothing.
Sabotaged the GE, sabotaged the anti-Semitism investigation and used sexist and racist bullying language toward sitting Labour MPs.
Not a very nice bunch are they SAB?
 
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