3-4-3 system
- Thread starter Mayor Goldie Wilson
- Start date
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
I think to right the wrongs of last season we need to be miles more robust in middle and tighter at the back.
I quite like 3 at the back for that, because it’s really 5 at the back and you’ve got an extra defender - assuming the wing backs are good, and we haven’t got any.
Can’t trust Azaz as an 8 because he can’t/won’t do anything off the ball so you have to hide him somewhere. He’s really effective as a 10, not great wide left and worse than invisible when defending.
Maybe a sort of 3-4-2-1 is where we’ll end up, with Azaz and Whittaker behind TC. If you’re playing them two then you need Morris and one other destroyer in the middle because we were so weak there last season. If Kante can bring some energy and dynamism, could be great - big ask for a young lad in a new league but who knows. I’ll be very surprised if Hackney’s still here. If he is, I’d still want two destroyers behind him, we have to defend better.
I quite like 3 at the back for that, because it’s really 5 at the back and you’ve got an extra defender - assuming the wing backs are good, and we haven’t got any.
Can’t trust Azaz as an 8 because he can’t/won’t do anything off the ball so you have to hide him somewhere. He’s really effective as a 10, not great wide left and worse than invisible when defending.
Maybe a sort of 3-4-2-1 is where we’ll end up, with Azaz and Whittaker behind TC. If you’re playing them two then you need Morris and one other destroyer in the middle because we were so weak there last season. If Kante can bring some energy and dynamism, could be great - big ask for a young lad in a new league but who knows. I’ll be very surprised if Hackney’s still here. If he is, I’d still want two destroyers behind him, we have to defend better.
Paulroddam7
Well-known member
I agree, we do need wing backs for it, but it does at least benefit the other 9 more than what we went with previously.
But we arent much better at full back for a back 4. 3-4-2-1 definitely suits our attacking players better.
And we are quite solid at CB so are easily able to field 3 strong CBs.
We are a couple of wing backs away and it sounds like one is really close. If we know thats the system we are going to be going with then it makes sense to be training in that system and playing our preseason games in that system.
BoroPhil
Well-known member
at the risk of repeating myself?I'm not sure why we aren't seeing Borges as a wing back btw, it sounds like he did pretty well in that role previously?
PROFILE | Neto Borges struggling to replicate first-season form at Clermont - Get French Football News
That shortcoming was made clear in his sending-off against Lorient at the start of last season. Since then, though, Borges has been a standout performer aswww.getfootballnewsfrance.com
We'll get them in.
I'm sure these conversations have happened even before Edwards took the job.
We don't have any proper wingers either which gave Carrick an issue in the 4-2-3-1 formation. It would also cause us an issue in the 4-3-3. Once we sold Jones and Doak got injured, we left ourselves totally devoid of width in the final third. Whittaker, Burgzorg, Forss and McGree all play narrow.
This is the point I was making yesterday and Edwards himself made the exact same point last night.
Id be tempted to start him there from our current squad because at least he's left footed. But I dont think hes mobile enough to be our main man.
I don't think he's great at left back attacking wise. Doesn't get forward, can't cross a ball, so I wouldn't have him at LWB.
We'd have to play Burgzorg or Silvera on one side (Burgzorg did stay out wide left when played there last season) and one more inside forward like Whittaker on the right.
Bottom line is recruitment has made the squad worse, as it is thin in many positions and lacking in key attributes to be successful.
BoroPhil
Well-known member
Ok, but why do you think he did so well before and to quote the article: Borges has been a standout performer as the left wing-back of Pascal Gastien’s five-man defensive set-up. His all-action skill set makes him a unique profile in the Ligue 1 landscape – from his eye for an interception, to his deceptively strong aerial presence, to his willingness to gallop all the way into the box to create chances.
We tried that last season and it was gash. If Edwards did that then people would be saying why did we change managers to play the same way.
I agree with this. We've weakened the squad and we are less balanced than we were 18 months ago but it does look like we are slowly addressing some of the problems.
My point is, it doesnt matter what formation we played right now, there would be holes. Im sure Edwards and Scott will have identified the gaps together ans we'llnbe targeting them. RWB and LWB will be top of that list.
Not sure, but from what I have seen he isn't great going forward. I don't understand why he was getting rave reviews there but seemed unwilling to "gallop all the way into the box to create chances" for us last season. Maybe it was under instruction, but why was Giles or Illing-Junior not under similar instructions? He looked best focusing on defending as a CB, but I can only comment on what I've seen. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong. I think Edwards has picked him as a CB so far .
Azaz , Burgzorg, and Whittaker have all proven last season that they are not capable of being " midfielders ' without the ball .
Once it's the wrong side of them , they're forwards .
They all need 7 players with more defensive responsibility behind them , not six.
Whatever the formation... it's not just on the FB / WB to provide all width at all times
Once it's the wrong side of them , they're forwards .
They all need 7 players with more defensive responsibility behind them , not six.
Whatever the formation... it's not just on the FB / WB to provide all width at all times
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Dave Doriva
Well-known member
3-4-2-1 makes us more solid. It also gets the best out of McGree, Whitaker and Azaz. Those 3 (if fit) are our match winners. I can see why we would go for it.
We’ll bring in two wing backs as well.
We’ll bring in two wing backs as well.
Maybe he lost some pace from an injury or maybe the league allowed for a lack of pace but hes so incredibly slow he will never make it as a left wing back or even a left back in this league.
I think he'll be cover for centre back for the season or till January, then leave for a nominal fee to a league his attributes are more suited to.
I like his character but hes too slow for the championship.
Its like we signed a different player. He's so unsuitable for the role in Carricks team, even the description above, I've never seen him as particularly dominant in the air, Iling Junior was more physical and competed for headers better and I think he often over committed when trying to make an interception, further exposing his lack of pace.
Ravshoutsatbeck
Well-known member
I think Borges is an interesting one.
He joined after the season started. Initially struggled in a new league but looked decent as the season went on. Including a decent run when he played more inverted.
His biggest issue was struggling one v one against pace. But not sure how much that is a "too slow to every be good enough" or just first season in a new league.
I actually think his good form in the centre of defence has just moved his starting position. (I also think Edwards has genuinely liked Silvera in that position).
He joined after the season started. Initially struggled in a new league but looked decent as the season went on. Including a decent run when he played more inverted.
His biggest issue was struggling one v one against pace. But not sure how much that is a "too slow to every be good enough" or just first season in a new league.
I actually think his good form in the centre of defence has just moved his starting position. (I also think Edwards has genuinely liked Silvera in that position).
I agree I think Edwards will like players like Silvera and Burgzorg the key is getting them to be better with decision making as the both cut inside and shoot through 4 players when a pass is on which really frustrates us, they do however both have really good engines hence why you can see potential especially in Burgzorg, but attitude and application has to be consistent too.
Bruce
Well-known member
Personally, I think that for whatever reason both Borges and Ayling have lost the pace they need to play as an orthodox full back facing a pacy winger yet along joining in an attack then having to make a fast sprint back to recover. However, I think they are still more than capable of playing LCB/RCB which is a position that tends to be something like 80% CB and 20% FB. I've been impressed with McCormick but he is another who looks more like a LCB rather than LB or LWB. With Bangura's injury we literally have no one who can play FB on either side but we have at least three players who can play LCB/RCB and, surprisingly, Silvera as a possible LWB.
Despite people obsessing over us having "no wing-backs" we have more (sort of) viable wingbacks than full backs. We also have Patterson-Powell and Josh Dede who might be an option as an U21 understudy for wing-back but not a full back. If Bangura ever recovers he appears to be a specialist wingback rather than fullback.
BoroPhil
Well-known member
Must admit I never watched him and thought he is 'incredibly slow'. Always seemed keen to get forward and even scored a winner from CB arriving in the box?
Can't really see how he has gone from one of the best wing backs in France to not being able to play it at all. I dont think he has had an injury and its not like he is 35?
You can only play two of them in that formation though?