£27,000 a year?

Perfecthatrick said:
I don't think it's a remotely acceptable wage. I am a nurse due to start my first position. It's not the same as a new graduate, it's being qualified for a profession. Think about all the other professionals that start on so much more. It's also not a living wage with the way things are. I don't have children but if me and wife did then it would be a struggle (she's also a band 5 on the nhs). The pay scale is all relative to the funding of the nhs, which is terrible. Being qualified as a nurse certainly demands better pay. The decisions we make over very important factors alone would justify this. The environment in which we work is exhausting due to demands and lack of staffing and resources, make this even worse. Nurses are choosing to go private for the better pay, and therfore the private sector is better staffed allowing for better efficency and quality care. If the government paid better for nurses we'd have recruitment that meets the demands, and wards would be better staffed so on so forth. I worked as an aspiriant nurse during the pandemic which was at a band 4 wage (20k). Imagine having the responsibilities of a nurse whilst being unqualified, during covid, 20k is nowt. 27k is equally nothing
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Thankfully we had a bursary [though it was derisory] and local NHS Boards provided the training - before it was privatised to Universities who make a fortune - and nurses pay the debt to work for a pittance.

Anyone who thinks Nurses dont deserve a pay rise - next time you need looking after, go private instead.(y)
 
I've seen the arguments for the total privatisation of the NHS from some people.

If you're in favour of that, explain to me how it works. Particularly with regard to an ageing population who believe they have already paid for their healthcare.
 
Perfecthatrick said:
I don't think it's a remotely acceptable wage. I am a nurse due to start my first position. It's not the same as a new graduate, it's being qualified for a profession. Think about all the other professionals that start on so much more. It's also not a living wage with the way things are. I don't have children but if me and wife did then it would be a struggle (she's also a band 5 on the nhs). The pay scale is all relative to the funding of the nhs, which is terrible. Being qualified as a nurse certainly demands better pay. The decisions we make over very important factors alone would justify this. The environment in which we work is exhausting due to demands and lack of staffing and resources, make this even worse. Nurses are choosing to go private for the better pay, and therfore the private sector is better staffed allowing for better efficency and quality care. If the government paid better for nurses we'd have recruitment that meets the demands, and wards would be better staffed so on so forth. I worked as an aspiriant nurse during the pandemic which was at a band 4 wage (20k). Imagine having the responsibilities of a nurse whilst being unqualified, during covid, 20k is nowt. 27k is equally nothing
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I had a very sobering conversation with a Nurse the other day.

My daughter was being cared for at a private hospital in London, and the nurse was saying how she had a little boy the same age. She was telling us how she works in both the NHS and then picks up additional shifts at this hospital, and commutes in from deepest Kent to do so. So this is a lady who is working bloody hard, as well as caring for her 18 month old son.

We were discussing dairy intolerance, and the fact that both our children need oat milk rather than cows milk. When we run out of this milk I pop to the supermarket and pick up as many cartons of Alpro Oat Follow On milk as I can carry, and have no idea how much it costs. She was telling me it's pretty expensive and that they cant afford to give him it, and so they're having to either water it down or push him onto cows milk because it's much more affordable, and they just can't afford to buy him the drink he should be having because of a intolerance.

I'd never even thought about it before, because we live a relatively comfortable life, but how is that right in a rich country like the UK, that a woman hailed as "a NHS hero" not 3 years ago, can work 2 jobs and not even afford to give her baby son the milk he needs to grow ?
 
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£27000 means different things in different parts of the country. And goes a lot further in the North East. Getting back to the central point - of course they deserve more. But it will affect NHS BUDGETS. The problem is whatever amount of money you throw at it well it is never enough.

I am fortunate in earning in excess of £27k a year part time. And, frankly, nurses are more beneficial and use to society.
 
So, writing as a qualified nurse, I tend to agree that it's not the starting point so much as the progression that is the problem here. Don't get me wrong, a pay rise is needed across the board, but compression of the nursing pay bands has taken place, and other professional changes have meant the experienced nurse takes on ever more responsibility.

Around the early 00's (I'm prepared to be corrected on my memory of the dates), the starting salary of the newly qualified nurse rose faster than that of an experienced nurse, leading to compression of the grades. The reason was we needed to make the career more appealing to entice new recruits into the profession.

However, the nursing role has continued to evolve, with experienced nurses trained to take on roles previously considered part of the doctor's role; nurse prescribing has rightly been mentioned already. The skill, knowledge and acceptance of responsibility required for these roles does need to be recognised in salary. The alternative, employing more doctors to perform these roles is likely to prove more expensive.
 
Nano said:
Even if there were no tuition fees the maintenance loan on its own would be high enough that a nurses salary will never pay it off. Whether you write off £15k of maintenance loan at 65 or £60k of maintenance plus tuition is identical. It's called a student loan but it's really a graduate tax. It isn't a debt really. The high interest rate means nobody really pays it off.

It's a horrible system and just means this generation unfairly pays more tax than previous generations.
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The thing I hate most about it is that despite having record numbers going to university we still have skills shortages. What is everyone studying because clearly not enough are studying in courses we have a desperate need for?
I'd like to see the current system scrapped for key courses and also quotas allocated for loans for courses to ensure universities are providing the education the country needs.
Won't happen though as universities have already become big businesses and are more interested in foreign students and running cheap courses.
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
The thing I hate most about it is that despite having record numbers going to university we still have skills shortages. What is everyone studying because clearly not enough are studying in courses we have a desperate need for?
I'd like to see the current system scrapped for key courses and also quotas allocated for loans for courses to ensure universities are providing the education the country needs.
Won't happen though as universities have already become big businesses and are more interested in foreign students and running cheap courses.
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Or even educating students in a subject they have an interest in, rather than churning out wage slaves who can work themselves to the bone for the next 60 years....
 
muniz said:
this is why we need borris johnson back to fix this mess
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Good shout. Not sure what cheating on cancer ridden patients will do to help the NHS but I'm sure you've thought it through.

If you catch him giving one of his mistresses giving him a BJ you could get a knighthood.
 
American_Mary said:
You're 100% right, there were none of these issues when Big Dog was PM absolute scandal that such a brilliant statesman and world renowned political behemoth was cut down in his prime by Richy Sunblock, Nadine Dowries, Pears Morgan and the BBC.

When Borriss was in charge all nurses had to worry about was choreographing their Tikky-Tok and choosing the best PPE to coordinate with their uniforms.

*Italics indicate irony perhaps Muniz should use the same as I think people are missing the fleshy muscular organ planted firmly in the inner side of his mouth.
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he would of fixed it like he did with brexit, covid and peoples right to party, just needed more time
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Or even educating students in a subject they have an interest in, rather than churning out wage slaves who can work themselves to the bone for the next 60 years....
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The problem is that it is a loan. What's the point in lending a load of money knowing you will never get it back? We should be massively reducing student loans and spending the money on something useful like paying to train nurses. There is no need for the high numbers of students we have now.
 
27k for someone recently graduated isn't bad it is more you can't really progress much from this wage unlike in other professions
 
I don't think 27k is bad as a starting wage for a nurse to be honest. It's in line with other professional graduates. The problem is the ceiling for nurses and the time to progress.

For instance an engineering graduate will start on somewhere between £25-32k. But within 4 years they could be on £40k and by the time they have 10 years experience will probably have £50k+ salary. If they go down the contracting route, will likely be earning much more. I would imagine solicitors/accountants etc would be similar.

Very few nurses will progress through the bands this quickly
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
The problem is that it is a loan. What's the point in lending a load of money knowing you will never get it back? We should be massively reducing student loans and spending the money on something useful like paying to train nurses. There is no need for the high numbers of students we have now.
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It's essentially another tax. I would hazard a guess that most graduates these days will never pay back their student loan within the 30 years before it is written off. It is therefore essentially an added tax to their income. A university tax.
 
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