VAR

Ref's have been blamed, VAR has been blamed but no one has criticised the Chelsea goalkeeper for playing acting. If he wasn't or was hardly touched why was he down and rolling round, the players and their acting is making it very difficult for officials, yet they get the blame, the play acting is a disgrace but it's always someone else's fault and the exprofessionals and pundits don't call them out either, easier to point the finger at the ref and Var.
 
Corco65 said:
Ref's have been blamed, VAR has been blamed but no one has criticised the Chelsea goalkeeper for playing acting. If he wasn't or was hardly touched why was he down and rolling round, the players and their acting is making it very difficult for officials, yet they get the blame, the play acting is a disgrace but it's always someone else's fault and the exprofessionals and pundits don't call them out either, easier to point the finger at the ref and Var.
Click to expand...
Its entertainment. Controversy will always be a part of the game and and keeps these ‘expert’ pundits in a job. Theres good money in criticising refs.

Failure can redirected at refs and VAR. Responsibilty reframed as the refs, well their all inadequate, the worste ever, don't know what they are doing .. A consequence is that down the football pyrmaid refs numbers are collapsing due to the abuse they receive, Overt criticism and abuse that is normalised by behaviour of experts, stars and Managers at the top.
 
Was watching the hockey at the commonwealth games and they did Var perfectly. The ref and the team make their comments public so you understand what's going and the reason behind a decision. With Var we are left blind
 
It's here to stay.

We just need to better train referees, probably help by making it a more attractive career path.
I've no idea why you'd want to be a ref right now, you get dogs abuse for fairly meager pay, even at the highest level.

It's a key position in one of the most lucrative sports in the world and most PL playa earn more in a week than they do in a year.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
View attachment 44067
Brilliant.
Click to expand...

Exactly this, it was brought in to counter "clear and obvious errors" but the ludicrous way in which it's used in the PL means we're arguing over the width of a toenail for an offside call or whatever.

The 30 seconds rule is a great one - if you need to analyze it for 5 minutes then it's not clear and obvious, and the refs decision remains.

I really dont see why this is so hard.
 
It'll always be shyte until they actually start putting ex-pros in charge of making VAR decisions.. people who've actually played the game at decent level and who have a wealth of on field experience and know the "game" - not just its rules. I'm sure there's plenty of retired players around that are capable of adding common sense into the equation when something needs looking at.

Whoever runs VAR also needs to be held accountable, interviewed after a match in front to the cameras, explaining why such and such decision was made, good or bad, like managers and players have to.

The bottom line though is all they've done is taken one mans judgment - the on field referee - and given it to another mans judgement sat in a studio 100 miles away from the action. Yes it helps with decisions the ref missed in real time, but the contentions ones are still down to one persons judgement call like we saw at the weekend. Until that changes with the invent of some unbiased and neutral decision-making AI, those calls should at least be made by people who've actually played the game and have a wealth of on-field experience to back them up.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Exactly this, it was brought in to counter "clear and obvious errors" but the ludicrous way in which it's used in the PL means we're arguing over the width of a toenail for an offside call or whatever.

The 30 seconds rule is a great one - if you need to analyze it for 5 minutes then it's not clear and obvious, and the refs decision remains.

I really dont see why this is so hard.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree with you more Lizards.

I'm glad VAR is not implemented in the Championship and League One as these are the games that I go to watch in person. VAR in its current form seems terrible in the snippets I have seen from the Premier League.
 
They need to make the job more appealing. It's decent money, compared to most careers, but considering how much money there is in football and how responsible they are for things running correctly it could be better. The very best referee will be earning less per year than some of them are earning in a week. Maybe there needs to be a push to get people into refereeing, particularly youngsters that fail to make it pro. A viable career path other than coaching within the game. Players that have played, have the fitness and experience etc should be a good basis for learning the laws. Either that or make it a mandatory part of academies, coaching badges etc.

Biggest help would obviously be raising the standards of player's behaviour. Referees are the ones that could do that now within the current rules. Enforce the rules they have around dissent, swearing, diving etc and their jobs would be a lot easier.

I like VAR, as a concept. I think getting the big calls correct is important and it is a tool that should improve that. The implementation, and the competency of the implementer, is the main problem. The time thing is a non-issue in most cases because it happens when the ball is dead anyway. Some more transparency, being able to hear the communication (even retrospective audio logs) would allow people to understand their thinking/process.

Things like the WHam goal have been hammered but you can see the player did trail his leg deliberately. That isn't a natural movement so he's either tried to leave his foot in or he's so used to doing it to create contact to win penalties that it has become second nature. You can see why it was ruled out even though it was incredibly soft. Players cheat constantly so how do you decide whether the contact was deliberate, whether the reaction from the keeper is exaggerated etc.

The Villa goal that was disallowed shows what happens when we allow the officials to make the decisions on their own. Wasn't even close to being correct and they are only supposed to call if there is no margin for error so that shows how far that linesman was.

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Exactly this, it was brought in to counter "clear and obvious errors" but the ludicrous way in which it's used in the PL means we're arguing over the width of a toenail for an offside call or whatever.

The 30 seconds rule is a great one - if you need to analyze it for 5 minutes then it's not clear and obvious, and the refs decision remains.

I really dont see why this is so hard.
Click to expand...
The 30s rule isn't a good one. The correct decision in 1 minute is better than the wrong one in 30 seconds or you might as well not have it at all. The ball is dead when the reviews are done so what is the problem? As above, transparency is the key. The offside reviews have already been changed so now it is only definite offsides that are given. It won't be long before this is done by AI and it will be instant and correct.

VAR is progress. Just like Goal line tech, 4th officials, linesmen etc were at some point. It's not "finished", there will always be changes/progress.

It will never be perfect but we can have much better than 1 bloke running around after people far fitter than him, trying to see things from poor angles and make split-second decision decisions while the players are trying to con him the entire time and he's being screamed at by a stadium of people that don't understand the rules (or care as long as the decision went their way).
 
GazBoro said:
It'll always be shyte until they actually start putting ex-pros in charge of making VAR decisions..
Click to expand...
I'm not trolling here Gaz, but if ex-pros are used how to you prevent allegations of bias (however tenuous!)?

You only have to read how some fans overreact on places like here (and on the radio) to think it would be a minefield.
 
weemoby said:
I'm not trolling here Gaz, but if ex-pros are used how to you prevent allegations of bias (however tenuous!)?

You only have to read how some fans overreact on places like here (and on the radio) to think it would be a minefield.
Click to expand...

That's always an issue, and its an issue whether they use ex-pros or not. No one knows what footballing allegiances the current people sat in the VAR control rooms have for instance.

If they brought in ex-pros to run VAR then obviously they'd be excluded from overseeing matches their ex-teams are involved in, alternatively bring in ex-pros from other countries. The point is, the decisions would be made by people who understand the game beyond tick boxing.

That so called foul decision on the goalkeeper at the weekend would never have been made by someone who had played the game professionally.
 
TeaCider said:
It's here to stay.

We just need to better train referees, probably help by making it a more attractive career path.
I've no idea why you'd want to be a ref right now, you get dogs abuse for fairly meager pay, even at the highest level.

It's a key position in one of the most lucrative sports in the world and most PL playa earn more in a week than they do in a year.
Click to expand...
My son refereed at junior level when he was 15 and during that time he was threatened on two separate occasions by parents watching their child play.

This isn't an isolated case, there are many referees who have been verbally or physically abused because of the decision they have made. I know the FA is working hard on preventing this from happening in local football but until it is removed from the game, the standard of Ref's available will be low.
 
GazBoro said:
It'll always be shyte until they actually start putting ex-pros in charge of making VAR decisions.. people who've actually played the game at decent level and who have a wealth of on field experience and know the "game" - not just its rules. I'm sure there's plenty of retired players around that are capable of adding common sense into the equation when something needs looking at.

Whoever runs VAR also needs to be held accountable, interviewed after a match in front to the cameras, explaining why such and such decision was made, good or bad, like managers and players have to.

The bottom line though is all they've done is taken one mans judgment - the on field referee - and given it to another mans judgement sat in a studio 100 miles away from the action. Yes it helps with decisions the ref missed in real time, but the contentions ones are still down to one persons judgement call like we saw at the weekend. Until that changes with the invent of some unbiased and neutral decision-making AI, those calls should at least be made by people who've actually played the game and have a wealth of on-field experience to back them up.
Click to expand...
I agree with you in the main. My one rider with using ex-pro’s is they will have allegiances and prejudices built up during their playing days and their independence can and will at times be called into question, so great care and training would be needed to ensure they had as few of the possible biases as possible.
 
I’d honestly bring in reviews.

1 per match, same as cricket, manager or captain can use it for a VAR check. If they’re right, they keep the review and can use it again later.

I think the game’s got to be fun as well as ‘perfect’, and I’ve argued this before on here, but blatantly wrong decisions and the outrage around it like Maradona’s handball were all part of the flavour of the game. Whatever VAR evolves into, I do think it should keep some entertainment factor because in the end that’s the point of the sport - reviews would do that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top