Electric cars to cost more to run then petrol/ diesel cars

Facefuzz said:
You’ve got my quote wrong and got excited about electric v petrol.
I’m not saying petrol is the answer. I’m saying electric, in its current form, also is not the answer. It’s way to expensive for 95% of this board to buy in the first place. It does **** the planet in the mining for materials. And there is no end game for end of life. A lot of what I have read says that the battery’s can’t be reused and the minerals used to make them can’t be re used. We will effectively, as it stands, have tons of waste which will burden the planet until humans have long since gone.
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i think all batteries now made for EV have to be made so they can be recycled.
 
Facefuzz said:
I’m not saying petrol is the answer. I’m saying electric, in its current form, also is not the answer. It’s way to expensive for 95% of this board to buy in the first place.
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I haven't gone on holiday for the last 3 years, I'm sure if most people on this board didn't spend 2k a year going on holiday for 3 years they could also use that money for solar if they wanted to. It's not that expensive in the grand scheme of things, and there have been plenty of deals for financing. It will pay for itself within 3 years with fuel costs at this level.

Facefuzz said:
A lot of what I have read says that the battery’s can’t be reused and the minerals used to make them can’t be re used.
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I'd suggest you look at your sources because they're obviously ****
 
The long and short of vehicle technology is that the science and (available) technology gives governments the opportunity to raise the bar with climate change rhetoric.

Now whether or not we’ll see anything good come from electric vehicles in the near future is anyone's guess as we’ll still have a boat load of heavy goods vehicles and planes etc emitting (various types) smog regardless of what happens to non-commercial transportation.

Personally I think (ev technology) is a good step forward, as we all know it’s not only air pollution that we’re trying to reverse its various other forms of pollution that we also need to reverse. Ok the costs need to be reduced to make ev more attractive to the middle classes but that’s another problem which manufacturers and governments need to overcome.
 
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It's weird how ICE owners are laughing and gloating that EV owners might have to pay a bit more for their electric. Reminds me of how Brexiteers gloat over their promised Brexit bonuses that never materialised.

I'd guess that even now an EV makes sense. Servicing etc hasn't gone up, you can still get free charging at supermarkets, electric will drop in a couple of years, petrol / diesel isn't really going down despite oil dropping, 2nd hand EV's are dropping in price etc etc.

ICE owners laugh all you want but I think EVs will be around for some time and will still work out a better buy than an ICE if buying new.
 
There's only one way to go and that's free or cheap public transport. Yes it needs improving but having done a spot of bussing about recently the services are there for most, it just takes a bit longer, so make travel time part of the working day and give employers a bit of responsibility when it comes to hiring.

Also it's been shown, over the lockdown, that the majority don't need to commute, we have the technology for remote working, and local community work hubs could be set up rather than waste fuel on travel. People will still get their social interaction but with others not in their work community. Using a community hub would cut down the need to heat and light homes through the day, transform the 'warm bank' idea into an energy saving one.
 
It looks like end of life batteries are starting to be re used. They help in powering the Amsterdam arena apparently and the smelting process is being developed to re use the minerals.
At this time they still aren’t viable for most. I know they are cheaper as company cars, most do not have company cars. I know you could have 3 years without a £2k holidays to pay for solar panels but most don’t have £2k holidays.
The arguments against are that in the current form they aren’t viable and they won’t be in 2030 either at current rates. The mining and use of the minerals needs to come down, not go up. The infrastructure for charging will need to speed up 10 fold. The price of the cars needs to be halved to make them affordable. We should be trying to move away from cars to a public transport network
 
Maybe it's getting to the stage that we had 20 or so years ago with cars - that they were a luxury, not a right.

When you look at new build estates with one parking space and there are three cars per house cluttering up the pavement - it's a nightmare. As car ownership has shot up less public transport was needed - it's a vicious circle but I think we are reaching a tipping point with energy being so expensive.
 
Heam44 said:
I hope you mofo’s don’t expect @SmallTown and @Andy_W to put up with this kind of smack talk!

$hits about to get real!
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Easy to bat this down.

Seems they've made the classic school-boy mistake of not factoring in the total cost of ownership, and they think that fuel cost is the only car cost. Possibly lazy journalism, but more likely headline to try and catch clicks (seemingly it works on the non-EV crowd).

Then they've made the second classic mistake of not comparing like for like, they've relied on a database of unalike cars, which is also including loads of older EV's which are less efficient. They say they're comparing like for like later, for the individual cars, but don't mention what they're comparing too, classic. For the SUV test they used the least efficient EV that exists, which is effectively a bus :LOL:

Also, it doesn't factor in that loads of EV owners have overnight tariffs, this makes the electric about 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost. An overnight tariff at the minute is about 8-10p and might go to 15p-20p per kW (not 52p).

Back in the real world.....

My car is a sporty large car/ SUV and I'm getting around 3 miles per kW, and the equivalent in its class in petrol isn't doing 41-48mpg, it's 25mpg, at best.

Effectively, to get 500 miles from my car it's ~167kW, which at the 8p overnight tariff is £13, even if it doubles that's only £26. A 25 mpg ICE would cost 35p per mile, so £175. So, even at £25 for 500 miles, I'm paying £50 a month, v the £350 of the ICE car, so I'm still going to be £300 a month better off, on electric/ fuel alone. Never mind that I've also got solar, and no solar battery (saved install cost/ excess goes into the car).

Then it's not factoring in no VED, which saved me £2000 in Year 1 and £500 a year for 2,3,4,5 etc.

Also, not to mention cheaper services, and longer warranties on batteries and motors, compared to engines.

Also, no mention of EV's not depreciating at the same rate (or same value) as like for like ICE cars, which is a much larger proportion of the TCO cost, of newer cars. My car was worth 20% more the day I drove it off the forecourt.

The old arguments of short ranges and no chargers are becoming less common too, as batteries are more efficient, ranges are longer and there are more chargers, which are also a hell of a lot faster. Batteries will only get more efficient, and hence will EV efficiency.

The electric cost has narrowed the gap, for people only charging at peak rates (which is a bit silly), but TCO on EV's is still far, far cheaper.

The price cap is a one-off/ perfect storm, which will probably also get subsidised, but the cap will also likely come back down in 2024. I can't see the price of oil coming down much but can see taxes on oil use going up.
 
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Ironops said:
Sounds like a good argument for nationalisation
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It's a good argument for nationalising/ more state-owned Solar/ Wind/ Nuclear production/ energy generation.

Nationalising the distributors/ suppliers will just incur a massive cost, and not bring down the price of the distribution/ supply, it will actually go up, as the money to pay for that nationalisation would likely get put onto electricity bills (or go on the national debt pile/ less money for public services etc).
 
Andy_W said:
It's a good argument for nationalising/ more state-owned Solar/ Wind/ Nuclear production/ energy generation.

Nationalising the distributors/ suppliers will just incur a massive cost, and not bring down the price of the distribution/ supply, it will actually go up, as the money to pay for that nationalisation would likely get put onto electricity bills (or go on the national debt pile/ less money for public services etc).
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Why do people think you can just nationalise something and have all their assets, experience and investment suddenly available at our whim? Not to mention years of legal wrangling.

Imagine the gas and oil industry being ran like track and trace, thrilling prospect but I'm sure our costs would totally come down 😂
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
Why do people think you can just nationalise something and have all their assets, experience and investment suddenly available at our whim? Not to mention years of legal wrangling.

Imagine the gas and oil industry being ran like track and trace, thrilling prospect but I'm sure our costs would totally come down 😂
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The same at that they were privatised and the fleecing of the people took off. These industries were in public hands prior to th private cowboys taking over.

There'd be few calls for privatisation with a responsible corporation taking its share of social responsibility.

Blair wanted that, for me they've shown they can't be trusted and will take the population for a ride as soon as they can.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
There's only one way to go and that's free or cheap public transport. Yes it needs improving but having done a spot of bussing about recently the services are there for most, it just takes a bit longer, so make travel time part of the working day and give employers a bit of responsibility when it comes to hiring.

Also it's been shown, over the lockdown, that the majority don't need to commute, we have the technology for remote working, and local community work hubs could be set up rather than waste fuel on travel. People will still get their social interaction but with others not in their work community. Using a community hub would cut down the need to heat and light homes through the day, transform the 'warm bank' idea into an energy saving one.
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If you're a high earner (over 40K) that might be relevant
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https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...articles/ishybridworkingheretostay/2022-05-23
 
S7DiscoDown said:
I've missed a good EV thread. I'm looking forward to plenty of stats and counter stats as to why EVs are 'best' 😂
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These discussions are always binary aren’t they?
There is a start point - what is the motivation for going EV

For some it is environmental
Arguments for and against ‘environmental’ have been done to death.
People are capable of doing their own research and acting accordingly.
The fact is some EV users now believe it is good for environmental reasons alone (I’m one of them).

For some it is £
’Fuel’ - previously the economics appeared to be in favour of EV. From October the Jury is our and, indeed, it could be more expensive to run an EV.
Many in the £ category are company car drivers - they can save £000s on tax per year which is likely to more than compensate for that loss.

The other point, of course, is non EV drivers have every right to take a different position.
I’d urge those on both sides of the debate just to respect each other’s judgement.
 
1finny said:
These discussions are always binary aren’t they?
There is a start point - what is the motivation for going EV

For some it is environmental
Arguments for and against ‘environmental’ have been done to death.
People are capable of doing their own research and acting accordingly.
The fact is some EV users now believe it is good for environmental reasons alone (I’m one of them).

For some it is £
’Fuel’ - previously the economics appeared to be in favour of EV. From October the Jury is our and, indeed, it could be more expensive to run an EV.
Many in the £ category are company car drivers - they can save £000s on tax per year which is likely to more than compensate for that loss.

The other point, of course, is non EV drivers have every right to take a different position.
I’d urge those on both sides of the debate just to respect each other’s judgement.
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So is it good or bad? I don't want any of this reasoned middle ground!
 
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