Energy price cap forecast for April 2023 = £6,000 a year

In reality not even this government is stupid enough to allow the cap to go that high. If average bills hit £500 a month it would cause protests, riots, civil disobedience and obviously non payment of bills on a scale that would completely swamp the police -such as they are - and the army.

The obvious solution is already out there as described by the lib dems and Labour. Freeze the cap.
 
clublandrefugee said:
I envy the French. When are we going to see riots
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One of my favourite pastimes at the moment is telling anybody who voted for Brexit that isn’t it lovely that we are helping subsidise Frances energy bills by allowing EDF to impose a near 200% increase on their British customers as they can’t impose an increase on their own countries customers.

At least we have control eh!!!
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
One of my favourite pastimes at the moment is telling anybody who voted for Brexit that isn’t it lovely that we are helping subsidise Frances energy bills by allowing EDF to impose a near 200% increase on their British customers as they can’t impose an increase on their own countries customers.

At least we have control eh!!!
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Which is nonsense because if we were still in the EU the same thing would be happening. Also, we can prevent them increasing our bills but our government is choosing to allow it.

Brexit is completely irrelevant to the situation. We have 100% control but so far that control is being used to protect businesses and not customers.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
One of my favourite pastimes at the moment is telling anybody who voted for Brexit that isn’t it lovely that we are helping subsidise Frances energy bills by allowing EDF to impose a near 200% increase on their British customers as they can’t impose an increase on their own countries customers.

At least we have control eh!!!
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But we aren't. EDF Uk is making a loss and EDF France is making a massive loss because of what's happening over there and their nuclear situation. Essentially having to buy the electricity they aren't generating.

To subsidise something we'd have to be helping them make a profit. If they're making a loss that means the French government will be propping them up

That increase on Uk consumers is covering the cost increase to supply Uk consumers. It's not delivering them 200% profit and keeping bills low in France
 
HolgateCorner said:
If the lazy British workers could put a proper shift in then they would be able to afford a 6k heating bill.

It was the unions in the 70’s and 80’s, the EU and the immigrants in the 90’s, 00’s and 10’s and now it’s the er, it’s the er…..workers, yes, it’s the workers to blame now.
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I can't wait until I retire, so I can't be accused of being a lazy British worker UTB
 
sherlock1969 said:
When does this madness end?

The latest forecasts say the price cap will be £6,000 a year next April. £500 a month.

Something has to happen because that’s not affordable for 90%+ of the population for household bills.

Business’s bills will be higher so we’ll have rapid wholesale business collapses.

What a horrifying situation and what do the Tories do? Have their compliant press release stories about how eating mouldy food is not bad for you, and telling us hunger pangs are nothing to be afraid of.

Disgusting.
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Octopus has just offered me a fixed rate at £6200 per year, over £500 per month, currently paying £140 per month, I CANNOT afford to pay anything like that !
 
Ofgen are supposed to set a Cap, not just allow the energy companies to charge what they want, the clue is in the name, PRICE CAP!
 
locomansimon said:
Ofgen are supposed to set a Cap, not just allow the energy companies to charge what they want, the clue is in the name, PRICE CAP!
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That's what they are doing. The "charge what they want" isn't a bunch of execs going "I know, we'll charge £6k next increase, we'll all make loads!"

The cap is set based on the cost to serve the average user. It covers the cost of buying the electricity units and amount of gas, the cost of running bulb and other failed suppliers (because the cap before want high enough for them to survive), policy costs like the green levy's, profit which is about 2% and why they exist in the first place, and the network costs of getting the supply to you in the first place, and maintaining that supply. Easy for those profits to be wiped out if people use more than expected and tbey need to buy extra energy to cover but price has rocketed. The cap exists to stop them saying it'll be £8k for the svr and making 30% profit margins. Running at a 1.9% profit margin is wafer thin. When people say freeze the cap etc, need to consider how that will be paid for because that delta will need funding - they'll still have to buy the energy at market rates so if they can't bill you for it, who pays? The treasury? Plus there will then be a number of people trying to control bills who have taken the fix like you have mentioned, so would then be locked into an expensive deal with exit fees of £300 or so to get out so how do you support them?

You're looking at a fix so what you're seeing is the likely realistic cost at current prices to allow them to buy ahead based in your usage, and gamble that there will be more increases to make it worth locking in. Your other option is to remain on svr which will be initially a lot lower than that but who knows which direction it will go in?

It's crap and I've no idea how lower income people are flint to survive it, something needs doing but needs some fresh ideas. Or a huge pot of cash.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
That's what they are doing. The "charge what they want" isn't a bunch of execs going "I know, we'll charge £6k next increase, we'll all make loads!"

The cap is set based on the cost to serve the average user. It covers the cost of buying the electricity units and amount of gas, the cost of running bulb and other failed suppliers (because the cap before want high enough for them to survive), policy costs like the green levy's, profit which is about 2% and why they exist in the first place, and the network costs of getting the supply to you in the first place, and maintaining that supply. Easy for those profits to be wiped out if people use more than expected and tbey need to buy extra energy to cover but price has rocketed. The cap exists to stop them saying it'll be £8k for the svr and making 30% profit margins. Running at a 1.9% profit margin is wafer thin. When people say freeze the cap etc, need to consider how that will be paid for because that delta will need funding - they'll still have to buy the energy at market rates so if they can't bill you for it, who pays? The treasury? Plus there will then be a number of people trying to control bills who have taken the fix like you have mentioned, so would then be locked into an expensive deal with exit fees of £300 or so to get out so how do you support them?

You're looking at a fix so what you're seeing is the likely realistic cost at current prices to allow them to buy ahead based in your usage, and gamble that there will be more increases to make it worth locking in. Your other option is to remain on svr which will be initially a lot lower than that but who knows which direction it will go in?

It's crap and I've no idea how lower income people are flint to survive it, something needs doing but needs some fresh ideas. Or a huge pot of cash.
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I know a fair bit about the energy market and the electricity market in particular due to my job.

Its a complete mess, unbelievably complicated, and lucrative for producers, some generators are making a fortune right now, even Kwasi Kwarteng has hinted at it in recent days.

It needs a total restructure from top to bottom.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I know a fair bit about the energy market and the electricity market in particular due to my job.

Its a complete mess, unbelievably complicated, and lucrative for producers, some generators are making a fortune right now, even Kwasi Kwarteng has hinted at it in recent days.

It needs a total restructure from top to bottom.
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Yes, trouble is generators / producers aren't all suppliers and vice versa and even the ones that do produce, it's a seperate part of the business and industry but the likes of outfox the market or GEUK are very different from shell, BP etc. EDF produce energy and are making losses still despite the comments above about us "subsidising" French consumers.

Everyone's ire seems to go to the suppliers yet shell & bp etc seem to escape largely unscathed and people are talking about stopping supplier direct debits but filling their cars up
 
locomansimon said:
Octopus has just offered me a fixed rate at £6200 per year, over £500 per month, currently paying £140 per month, I CANNOT afford to pay anything like that !
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No way would I be taking that fixed deal.

The prices won't get that high, government will have to chuck billions at it and treat it like a pandemic.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
No way would I be taking that fixed deal.

The prices won't get that high, government will have to chuck billions at it and treat it like a pandemic.
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Im Octopus too and theyve offered me similar. Ive been on variable for a while giving out regular monthly meter readings and my monthly bill has gone up about £30 a month. Granted its in summer, but think Id take chances staying on variable and see what happens.
 
One wonders what the energy company call centre workers have been told? They must be expecting a tidal wave of ***ed off people on the phone and how are even supposed to remain impartial when the call handlers are going to be affected by these rises too? What do these companies think will happen when their own workforce goes on strike?
 
Nano said:
Which is nonsense because if we were still in the EU the same thing would be happening. Also, we can prevent them increasing our bills but our government is choosing to allow it.

Brexit is completely irrelevant to the situation. We have 100% control but so far that control is being used to protect businesses and not customers.
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Exactly how it was designed
 
The problem is the pretend split between suppliers and producers. They are the same companies. The cap should be held in place at a reasonable level and the supplier part of the business can make a big loss which can be covered by the massive profit of the producing side of the business. The suppliers that don't also produce have no place in the market. They are just middlemen that have inserted themselves in where they are not needed to increase costs to consumers for no gain to anyone other than themselves. When things go wrong they disappear and one of the others picks them up anyway. The argument is that they keep costs to the consumer low through competition but better regulation could achieve that anyway. It's another stupid market designed to fleece people that aren't pro-active enough to change deals every year. Nobody wants the hassle of having to change all the time and trying to figure out with your crystal ball how much energy you might use this year. The price-cap should be the only price that any company can charge, and it should be set at the best point for customers, not the businesses.

It's all just an accounting trick. These companies are the same company. They have been artificially split to protect their own profits and we're the ones getting screwed.
 
I think the cap freeze will come in eventually as well. At present they're cooking up a suitably terrifying future in the media to justify it (and leave it long enough to disassociate the idea from Lib Dems and Labour).

Presumably that will result in all the providers folding and nationalisation happening by default though anyway? A very similar situation to the rail operators.
 
changingman said:
I think the cap freeze will come in eventually as well. At present they're cooking up a suitably terrifying future in the media to justify it (and leave it long enough to disassociate the idea from Lib Dems and Labour).

Presumably that will result in all the providers folding and nationalisation happening by default though anyway? A very similar situation to the rail operators.
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That's my guess as well.

Nobody should be making money on providing an essential service like energy or water. The only argument for it is to take money from the poor to give to the rich (shareholders).

Hopefully the whole industry can be nationalised and then people can pay a set rate and if the electorate are not happy with the price then the government will fall. Simple.
 
Nano said:
The problem is the pretend split between suppliers and producers. They are the same companies. The cap should be held in place at a reasonable level and the supplier part of the business can make a big loss which can be covered by the massive profit of the producing side of the business. The suppliers that don't also produce have no place in the market. They are just middlemen that have inserted themselves in where they are not needed to increase costs to consumers for no gain to anyone other than themselves. When things go wrong they disappear and one of the others picks them up anyway. The argument is that they keep costs to the consumer low through competition but better regulation could achieve that anyway. It's another stupid market designed to fleece people that aren't pro-active enough to change deals every year. Nobody wants the hassle of having to change all the time and trying to figure out with your crystal ball how much energy you might use this year. The price-cap should be the only price that any company can charge, and it should be set at the best point for customers, not the businesses.

It's all just an accounting trick. These companies are the same company. They have been artificially split to protect their own profits and we're the ones getting screwed.
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More suppliers don't generate power than do. Not sure how many companies that do both would maintain a supply business if they have to sell it at a loss when they could sell it at the market price, easier to just close down the loss making supply business as someone is flint to have to buy that energy
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
More suppliers don't generate power than do. Not sure how many companies that do both would maintain a supply business if they have to sell it at a loss when they could sell it at the market price, easier to just close down the loss making supply business as someone is flint to have to buy that energy
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2 options.

1. Nationalised single supplier that gets to purchase from providers at cost plus a fixed profit.
2. Make it a requirement that every provider has to also be a supplier to the UK. Prices set by OFGEM.
 
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