Southgate - England's best manager?

This idea that Southgate has only been successful because he has been lucky with players compared to previous managers is utter rubbish.

Look at the players Venables, Hoddle and Sven had, look at the fact that in the 2008 Champions league final there were TEN English players starting..and England couldn't even qualify for the tournament nevermind get to the final of the Euros.

I also don't agree we have to win something for him to be considered successful. We had been a shambolic embarrassment for years before he took over, now we are as good as any other national team in the world. I'm happy with that.
"As good as" doesn't make him the best.
And he was 'shambolic' the only time he managed a club team.
 
"As good as" doesn't make him the best.
And he was 'shambolic' the only time he managed a club team.
What any of them achieved or didn't achieve in club management doesn't even come into the equation.

It is a statement of fact to say that Southgate has a 100% record in qualifying for 3 tournaments and in the 2 that have been played, he took us to a SF and a final. By way of comparison, Venables managed us in one tournament that he didn't have to qualify for but did get to the SF. Robson qualified for 3 out of 4 tournaments and managed a QF and SF. Hoddle qualified for 1 tournament and we went out in the last 16. It is frankly ludicrous to suggest that any of those 3 have a superior record to Southgate as manager of the England team, but including Hoddle just makes the entire argument bizarre and unusual.
 
"As good as" doesn't make him the best.
And he was 'shambolic' the only time he managed a club team.
surely Woodgates tenure was shambolic, Strachans was shambolic, Southgates wasn't shambolic, underwhelming and a decline for 3 seasons, but there was reasons for optimism at times in the first two years. Besides it's an irrelevance to the point at hand
 
No mental gymnastics needed. He's just not good.

He took the job at probably the lowest point in the England national teams history and has unquestionably been the most successful England manager in 50 years. He's been factually a better England manager than Hodgson, Cappelo, McLaren, Eriksson, Keegan, Hoddle, Venables, Taylor, Robson, Greenwood and Revie.
But we did draw with European champions Italy, so yeah conclusive evidence that hes not very good.🙄
 
No mental gymnastics needed. He's just not good.
He's won more competitive games and scored more competitive goals than any other england manager, he's won more tournament matches and scored more tournament goals than any other manager.

He's done this despite having to rip apart a failed team, and start with kids.

He's done it despite having very limited defenders available to him. People complain that 'he has the most talented squad of players ever', but it's rubbish. Man for man compare 2001 vs Germany vs this team...

David Seaman a class above Pickford, in 2001 Seaman had won 7 trophies to pickfords 0 today. Had played over 50 games in europe compared to pickfords 6.

Neville vs Walker. It's a tight call

Rio Ferdinand vs John Stones, Ferdinand is one of our best ever CBs and a class above Stones

Maguire vs Sol Campbell....it's Cambell every day of the week

Trippier vs Ashley Cole. Cole was far better

Gerrard vs Rice - no contest it's Gerrard

Scholes vs Philips haha

Beckham vs Saka. Saka is a great talent but at this point in his career he isn't the game winner Beckham was in 2001

Barmby vs Sterling.....Sterling obviously

Kane vs Hesky--- Kane

Owen vs Mount --Owen

You could equally compare to several other teams.

So you could make an argument for Kane, Sterling and Walker are good enough to get in our 2001 side. The rest are not as good, it's a fallacy that this is the best england squad ever, it's not in the top 3 talent-wise in my lifetime. There's plenty of young talent that might or might not come good, but while they lack the experience you can't claim they're the best squad of players.
 
He's won more competitive games and scored more competitive goals than any other england manager, he's won more tournament matches and scored more tournament goals than any other manager.

He's done this despite having to rip apart a failed team, and start with kids.

He's done it despite having very limited defenders available to him. People complain that 'he has the most talented squad of players ever', but it's rubbish. Man for man compare 2001 vs Germany vs this team...

David Seaman a class above Pickford, in 2001 Seaman had won 7 trophies to pickfords 0 today. Had played over 50 games in europe compared to pickfords 6.

Neville vs Walker. It's a tight call

Rio Ferdinand vs John Stones, Ferdinand is one of our best ever CBs and a class above Stones

Maguire vs Sol Campbell....it's Cambell every day of the week

Trippier vs Ashley Cole. Cole was far better

Gerrard vs Rice - no contest it's Gerrard

Scholes vs Philips haha

Beckham vs Saka. Saka is a great talent but at this point in his career he isn't the game winner Beckham was in 2001

Barmby vs Sterling.....Sterling obviously

Kane vs Hesky--- Kane

Owen vs Mount --Owen

You could equally compare to several other teams.

So you could make an argument for Kane, Sterling and Walker are good enough to get in our 2001 side. The rest are not as good, it's a fallacy that this is the best england squad ever, it's not in the top 3 talent-wise in my lifetime. There's plenty of young talent that might or might not come good, but while they lack the experience you can't claim they're the best squad of players.
Great post. The England squad from 2001 to 2006 was stacked full of quality players. Defensively it was miles ahead of the current squad. In that time England had the following as centre back options - Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, King, Southgate and even the likes of Ugo Ehiogu. Compare that with the options available now.
 
Must be the luckiest manager we’ve ever had then

The harder you work the luckier you get, isn't that what they say?

Look, in response to @zzzzz who seems intent on provoking a reaction with the 'look at me everyone' grandstanding after a couple of dodgy results. Yes, we've put in some poor performances recently, but to mitigate it's at the end of a long hard season (EPL has got to be the most physically demanding league) and the line ups could be described as experimental. Southgate has certainly looked to give some squad players a chance to stake a claim in competitive games.

I think experimenting in this situation is the right thing to do and no doubt he will have learnt more about certain players in these defeats than any number of comfortable 3-0 walk overs. The players selected will no doubt benefit in the future from this experience too.

I'm not saying Southgate is above criticism, but to lambast someone with his record after a few poor results/performances is ridiculous. Likewise the person above who seems to believe Klopp, Pep at al are responsible for England's coaching. This smacks of I don't like Southgate so I'm not going to give him any credit for the upturn in England performances and blame him solely for any downturns.

Like the guy or not, you simply can't argue with his record or our transformation as a country over recent years. He's certainly earned the right to have a few poor performances and not be under huge pressure.
 
Must be the luckiest manager we’ve ever had then
exactly, I will repeat again, Southgate has won more competitive games than any England manager ever, his teams have also scored more goals, he was won more tournament games and scored more goals than any other manager also.

His record good and bad is better than any other england manager including Ramsey because he led England in 1 world cup qualifying campaign which he failed, and in 2 Euro qualifying campaigns and he failed to qualify in 1 of those.
 
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I don't need to 'grandstand' whatever that os. My opinion of him has been consistent si ce his time with us as a manager.
As a player I'd say he was consistently the best CB we've ever had and never gave less than 100%. A model pro.
But why people think he could transition from abject club failure to Intenational success is beyond me.
His style with us was react to nothing... he never changed tactics and rarely subbed during games because he was unable to.
He never seemed to motivate our lot so how he'll suddenly be able to motivate the best the Country has to offer is again beyond me
Just my opinion
Although I don't give a fk about Qatar coz we shouldn't be there anyway.
 
Shows how fickle football fans are, he's englands most successful manager in over 50 years.
More successful than venables and Robson yet people look back with rose tinted glasses at those eras.
 
Shows how fickle football fans are, he's englands most successful manager in over 50 years.
More successful than venables and Robson yet people look back with rose tinted glasses at those eras.
Good article in the Guardian today about this.

 
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