Ken Loach expelled from the Labour Party

Lisa Nandys said over the weekend that Corbyn shouldn't get the whip back until he apologises, and that if that means he stands as an independent in the next election running against a Labour candidate, that she'd go and knock on doors round Islington for the Labour candidate.

Quite interesting for a few reasons that I think.

1) she's high up in the party so you'd assume when she's saying that its with Starmers support. So their thinking seems to be more about how they campaign against Corbyn at the next election rather than about a reconciliation.
2) Nandys seat profile is just the sort I could see being at risk but if she's serious that she'd spend her time swanning off to north London maybe the party aren't worried about the red wall effect happening anymore. Seems odd given Hartlepool byelection was only a few months ago.
3) for all the talk on here of the Labour rights pragmatic desperation to simply win, here they are telling us they're planning on making a gamble of one of their safest seats. If it's Corbyn vs a party suit there's every chance Corbyn retains his seat. Even with Nandy knocking on doors.
I think Corbyn will Hold the seat.
 
And now they're trying to go back to the old way of voting in the leader... Blair or Mandelson have something over him, I'm positive..
I see fůck up after fůck up from this shambles of a government... do i see the Labour party getting more popular.. no.
 
Not that it was ever needed but this thread just demonstrates how divisive Corbyn was and is to the Labour Party.
Best thing to happen to the Torys in decades.
 
Not that it was ever needed but this thread just demonstrates how divisive Corbyn was and is to the Labour Party.
Best thing to happen to the Torys in decades.
Probably true, and it was all too easy for them to play divide and rule with him.
 
And now they're trying to go back to the old way of voting in the leader... Blair or Mandelson have something over him, I'm positive..

I'd guess this means Starmer wants out before the next general election. Hardly surprising, he hasn't really looked like his hearts in it at any point.
 
The way I see it is that Blair/Brown/Mandy/Campbell moved the party to the middle of the road - Not too far from the Lib Dems, and Tory's. There was no longer much of a choice for the electorate. As the years went by, there was an obvious need for a different kind of politics and the left made a comeback with Corbyn/RLB. Starmer (on the face of it looked the most electable) along with other Blairites wrestle power back. This will go on and on - Great news for the Tories.

Simplistic view, I admit but what is needed in British Politics right now? For me it is a proper socialist alternative to this government. Labour must beat itself before it can beat the Tories. What a sad state of affairs.

Is it time for a breakaway party that CAN make policy decisons without tearing itself apart?
 
For me, yes it's time for a new party.

There's no point to the left staying in Labour if Starmer and co are going to stitch up the rules to ensure the left never get any influence again.

Obviously a new party would be unlikely to win power any time soon. Obviously splitting the vote would like leave the tories in gov.

But the next election is lost anyway. So there's very little change in that outcome in my opinion. At least a new left party could be vocal in it's opposition to the tories, unlike Starmer's Labour.

And if the Socialist Campaign Group all jumped at once I think they could have more of a chance than other new parties do. They'd have 30 odd MPs, could quickly have a large and active membership and could potentially take a trade union or 2 with them.

A few people mentioned in this or other threads hoping Labour would get behind PR voting. Precious little chance of that happening while the party are making anti democratic moves internally. But a split now, and a new party pressuring Labour from the left could bring the party on board with all sorts of policies. Similar to UKIPs pressure pulled the tories in to holding the brexit referendum.
 
Corbyn was Left. Left didn't work. People won't support Left Wing politics and policies in the UK, certainly not in numbers to have an impact at the polls.
It's an ideal that has passed society by. The 'working man' is simply not interested.
Capatalism selfishness and greed have well and truely taken over, more so than ever.
These are the realities.
So if you want an alternative to the Tories it'll have to be a Blairite type middle ground party.
Or live with the Tories forever.
 
Corbyn was Left. Left didn't work. People won't support Left Wing politics and policies in the UK, certainly not in numbers to have an impact at the polls.
It's an ideal that has passed society by. The 'working man' is simply not interested.
Capatalism selfishness and greed have well and truely taken over, more so than ever.
These are the realities.
So if you want an alternative to the Tories it'll have to be a Blairite type middle ground party.
Or live with the Tories forever.

I agree with a lot of that but disagree with your conclusions.

If we/anyone wants to change the values and ideals in society then someone needs to be talking loudly about it. There will never be a national mood for left wing policies if there are no politicians willing to go out and say how great they'd be - even if they themselves never obtain high office by doing so. Does anyone think Brexit would have happened without Farage spending 20 years advocating for it, never even winning a seat in Parliament himself?

Besides I don't see any evidence of people supporting a Blairite middle ground party in the numbers to have an impact in the polls.
 
For the Labour Party to win outright they need no only to be broadchurch of socialists and social democrats, but also form alliances with Nationalists, Greens and even Liberals.

A pure socialist party would never win over 300 seats in this country - in 2017 a high water mark for Labour recently it was 262 seats. The World has changed since 1945, ordinary people own houses, they have other assets like private pensions, investments. People with modest ownership of assets need to be feel protected from tax rises. Labour would need to win Redcar, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough SE, Stockton South - none of those seats are affluent areas overall on National scale.

If you don't own your own home and have very limited assets or have a income below £25k it easier to vote for Labour.

Look at Simon Clarke's constinuency (Middlesbrough SE), there are a lot of homeowners (Saltburn, Loftus, Guisborough, Marton, Ormesby), probably around 80%. Over 70% will be basic tax payers, probably 20% non tax payer and 10% higher tax payers. A lot will have private pensions or building up a private pension. There is a definite segment (of over 65s) that worked for ICI for 25 years or more and have a decent ICI pension. In 1945 it would have been 25% house owners and only 50% would have paid income tax. Today the continuency is not wealthy, but he has a big Tory majority. My guess is incomes are 10% below the National average, wealth is 30% below national average. Brexit has been good for him, but the seat should not be Conservative.

A Blairite approach work is Middlesbrough SE, modest increase in public spending particularly in schools and NHS, paid by higher income tax payers. It needs all the levelling up agenda that the Labour Party has allowed the Tories to take ownership of, particularly on economic and industrial issues.
 
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