Coventry v Man Utd

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
As I've stated the rules are applied unevenly.

You've run the goal through the television. What about the preceding twenty minutes play. What about all the fouls missed up in the build up.

Teams were allowed to break the rules during this period. Surely by your reckoning the story is therefore worth naught.

You should probably start watching some adult programming.
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As others have said, you're arguing for more VAR here. Your argument has two conclusions: you either want the rules to not stand when they've been obviously broken (like today) or you don't want any errors at all (like this imaginary scenario you've outlined above).

Quite the Manichean view, but it's your right to hold it.

Bluey is good stuff, makes you think about the variety of the world with surprising nuance. Maybe check it out? Might help the blood pressure.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
That proves what he’s saying though. We have game-changing mistakes and incidents peppered throughout the 90 minutes. Each and every touch, pass, bit of contact, is potentially a game-changing decision. Why would you just allow some wrong stuff to slide and pull it back for others. Why are you only rewinding the footage so far back. Why not go 5, 10, 15 seconds further back. You’ll find another infringement there if you slow it down and look hard enough. And the goal of red card you’re checking couldn’t have happened without that, highlighting that each and every touch of the ball is important and impacts the game.
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The reason they don't check every decision is because people like you two will kick off about them disrupting the game too much.

Throw-ins, corners and yellow cards are very common in games.
Goals are not.

Even when it's a binary decision about offside, and they've got it exactly right in fairly quick time, you're not happy with it.

I dread to think how you'd react to them checking a throw-in on the halfway line.
 
TeaCider said:
The reason they don't check every decision is because people like you two will kick off about them disrupting the game too much.

Throw-ins, corners and yellow cards are very common in games.
Goals are not.

Even when it's a binary decision about offside, and they've got it exactly right in fairly quick time, you're not happy with it.

I dread to think how you'd react to them checking a throw-in on the halfway line.
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:ROFLMAO: I think you've kind of missed the point. I do not want them checking throw ins.
The reason they don't check every decision is because games will last four F***ing hours.
We are simply making the argument that VAR only provides the illusion of fairness. And in doing so rips a great deal of enjoyment for those of us who tend to live in the moment.
 
Cress said:

Motion capture reveals why VAR in football struggles with offside decisions

New research shows why VAR isn't always accurate enough to judge offside moments.
www.bath.ac.uk www.bath.ac.uk
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Sorry but you clearly have no idea of what 132 milliseconds are if you think that the margin of error with that is less accurate than the human eye.

I’ve seen var look at multiple cameras to ensure they have the most accurate moment to check the offside too.

The argument being presented here is unless it is 100% accurate then it’s not accurate enough….which would to any reasonable person be deemed rediculous.
 
TeaCider said:
The reason they don't check every decision is because people like you two will kick off about them disrupting the game too much.

Throw-ins, corners and yellow cards are very common in games.
Goals are not.

Even when it's a binary decision about offside, and they've got it exactly right in fairly quick time, you're not happy with it.

I dread to think how you'd react to them checking a throw-in on the halfway line.
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Presumably you are happy for some fouls to be given and some not? To me it just does not make sense. I’m not happy with it because I absolutely hate it. I never wanted it, still don’t want it, will never want it. I don’t care about the odd mistake. If we’d had it in 2004 then Bolo’s penalty wouldn’t have counted and Bolton would’ve got a penalty in the last minute. Likewise we would’ve had an equaliser in the FA Cup that stood. But you get over it. We’re supposed to be adults. People make mistakes. I will never understand why some people are happy for a foul to given in one instance but not in another. It either is or it isn’t. You can’t have the end point without everything that went before it. And the point at which you choose to start the footage as you trawl through it looking for an infringement, no matter how small, because you’re scared of being absolutely pilloried for being a human being that can make a mistake is completely arbitrary. Otherwise you’d start it from minute one. Or at least from the very beginning of the phase of play.

We are where we are because a load of rich people who can’t stand not getting their own way shouted loud enough, for long enough. It has not made football better. It just means more of it is decided off the pitch.
 
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Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
:ROFLMAO: I think you've kind of missed the point. I do not want them checking throw ins.
The reason they don't check every decision is because games will last four F***ing hours.
We are simply making the argument that VAR only provides the illusion of fairness. And in doing so rips a great deal of enjoyment for those of us who tend to live in the moment.
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It creases fairness according to all metrics on the subject
 
LaPennaBianca said:
As others have said, you're arguing for more VAR here. Your argument has two conclusions: you either want the rules to not stand when they've been obviously broken (like today) or you don't want any errors at all (like this imaginary scenario you've outlined above).

Quite the Manichean view, but it's your right to hold it.

Bluey is good stuff, makes you think about the variety of the world with surprising nuance. Maybe check it out? Might help the blood pressure.
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I'm not arguing for more VAR. I'm arguing that the argument that VAR makes the game fairer is false.

The conclusion of my argument is that refereeing mistakes are a part of the game. They affect both teams equally so the games "sporting integrity" is not at risk.

The conclusion of your argument is surely that we should have an asterix next to our league cup win, as we won it by foul means.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I'm not arguing for more VAR. I'm arguing that the argument that VAR makes the game fairer is false.

The conclusion of my argument is that refereeing mistakes are a part of the game. They affect both teams equally so the games "sporting integrity" is not at risk.

The conclusion of your argument is surely that we should have an asterix next to our league cup win, as we won it by foul means.
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Referring mistakes don't affect both teams equally, that's a ridiculous argument to make.
 
I don’t like VAR personally. I go to the games, see a goal either for or against, glance at the ref/assistant ref and if no flag etc it’s a goal - instant joy or misery.

One of the best things about the championship is not having VAR and hopefully they never introduce it.

The premier league have introduced VAR and I hate it - however they use it in every game.

It shouldn’t be used in the FA cup at all - it is not used in every game so it shouldn’t be used in any game.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
:ROFLMAO: I think you've kind of missed the point. I do not want them checking throw ins.
The reason they don't check every decision is because games will last four F***ing hours.
We are simply making the argument that VAR only provides the illusion of fairness. And in doing so rips a great deal of enjoyment for those of us who tend to live in the moment.
Click to expand...

I've not missed the point.

I just don't agree with it.

They check decisions that directly impact goals, penalties and red cards, the three most important things in a match, and it's limited to that so it's not overly obstructive to the flow of the game.

The crux of your argument is that you're angry that VAR rightly ruled out a goal in the span of a minute and you'd sooner they got decisions wrong than have to put up with it.

I don't agree with that.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Standards of refereeing differ in every game, even the PL with VAR. Most are poor, more so now than ever before with the general standards of referee being awful in the EFL.

VAR should be used in all professional football.
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I think that's just a things aren't as good as they used to be argument.

Standards of refereeing differ from game to game. Of course they do. They always have done. What's a red card to one ref may be a yellow to others. What I hope for is a level of consistency throughout a single match.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I'm not arguing for more VAR. I'm arguing that the argument that VAR makes the game fairer is false.

The conclusion of my argument is that refereeing mistakes are a part of the game. They affect both teams equally so the games "sporting integrity" is not at risk.

The conclusion of your argument is surely that we should have an asterix next to our league cup win, as we won it by foul means.
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It's not. The conclusion to my argument is - the goal was offside and by intentionally letting it stand when it looked off and was then shown to be off is not good.

VAR is part of the game now. Just as billionaires, Richard Keys and the end of the maximum wage are. There's no going back.

The rules that dictate its use and the competence of the people implementing it are the issues.
 
I noticed the VAR decision was a line on the feet but I'm sure the Man u players hand was playing the Coventry player on.
 
TeaCider said:
I've not missed the point.

I just don't agree with it.

They check decisions that directly impact goals, penalties and red cards, the three most important things in a match, and it's limited to that so it's not overly obstructive to the flow of the game.

The crux of your argument is that you're angry that VAR rightly ruled out a goal in the span of a minute and you'd sooner they got decisions wrong than have to put up with it.

I don't agree with that.
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The point is that it all directly impacts a goal. You can’t have a goal without everything that went before in the phase of play that led to it. The point is who chooses where the line is drawn and why, why they are happy to let some things go and others not. If you score a team goal by playing out from the goalkeeper and making 45 passes that ends with a goal, you don’t decide to ignore the first 8 or 9 passes. It’s all the same move, the same phase of play. You can’t have the goal without the goalkeeper’s first pass. It’s the same with VAR checks. How can you decide to just ignore a load of stuff that happened in the build up.
 
Transitarmy said:
I noticed the VAR decision was a line on the feet but I'm sure the Man u players hand was playing the Coventry player on.
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You can’t be played onside by a part of the body that you can’t legally use, such as a hand unless you are the goalkeeper
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The point is that it all directly impacts a goal. You can’t have a goal without everything that went before in the phase of play that led to it. The point is who chooses where the line is drawn and why, why they are happy to let some things go and others not. If you score a team goal by playing out from the goalkeeper and making 45 passes that ends with a goal, you don’t decide to ignore the first 8 or 9 passes. It’s all the same move, the same phase of play. You can’t have the goal without the goalkeeper’s first pass. It’s the same with VAR checks. How can you decide to just ignore a load of stuff that happened in the build up.
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To use the parlance of our times.

VAR people: The story isn't important. What's important is that no rules are broken.

Also VAR people: VAR should only be applied at times important to the story.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
It's not. The conclusion to my argument is - the goal was offside and by intentionally letting it stand when it looked off and was then shown to be off is not good.

VAR is part of the game now. Just as billionaires, Richard Keys and the end of the maximum wage are. There's no going back.

The rules that dictate its use and the competence of the people implementing it are the issues.
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What impact does that have for our cup win though.

Zenden struck the ball twice. This was clearly shown on television. It was a clear and obvious error.

Do you still consider us to have won the trophy?

Of course there is going back. If you introduce something really stupid it's generally a good idea to stop doing the stupid thing.
 
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