Animation studios too

SmallTown

Well-known member
And we all know the drill, the usual shills will defend and deflect. Yet more will say "oh your (sic) always banging on about brexit, change the record."

Here's the thing though. Every time anyone posts on here about brexit it's a different problem with it. That's what the defelectors are trying to avoid by shouting down debate: the shear breadth of the damage it's doing to this country, hitting so many walks of life


aardman-uk-animators-may-have-to-move-abroad
 
And we all know the drill, the usual shills will defend and deflect. Yet more will say "oh your (sic) always banging on about brexit, change the record."

Here's the thing though. Every time anyone posts on here about brexit it's a different problem with it. That's what the defelectors are trying to avoid by shouting down debate: the shear breadth of the damage it's doing to this country, hitting so many walks of life


aardman-uk-animators-may-have-to-move-abroad
But it's another situation where Brexit is being blamed when it isn't the issue. Nothing about Brexit changes the situation in the article. The problem is other countries are offering more tax relief than we are. We are in charge of our own tax situation whether we are within the EU or not. We could increase the tax relief to be more competitive. In any non-Brexit bashing article from the Guardian they would be having a go at companies that were complaining that they had to pay too much tax or they had to provide training for staff.

Any issues described in the article are decisions that the government can change if they want to and the situation would have been the same if we were still in the EU. It seems that the major issues are tax relief which we would have had the same rates within the EU and not having enough staff because we don't spend enough on training which is down to the Tories cutting funding for training and the arts which again is just Tories being Tories. The sticking plaster of importing people that other countries have trained instead of providing training for our own people isn't something that anyone should be championing. We've got 1,000s of people doing media studies/film degrees etc that would jump at the chance to work for a company like Aardman and if they think that universities aren't providing training to get them up to scratch to enter the workforce then they should be working with them to improve their course content.
 
But it's another situation where Brexit is being blamed when it isn't the issue. Nothing about Brexit changes the situation in the article. The problem is other countries are offering more tax relief than we are. We are in charge of our own tax situation whether we are within the EU or not. We could increase the tax relief to be more competitive. In any non-Brexit bashing article from the Guardian they would be having a go at companies that were complaining that they had to pay too much tax or they had to provide training for staff.

Any issues described in the article are decisions that the government can change if they want to and the situation would have been the same if we were still in the EU. It seems that the major issues are tax relief which we would have had the same rates within the EU and not having enough staff because we don't spend enough on training which is down to the Tories cutting funding for training and the arts which again is just Tories being Tories. The sticking plaster of importing people that other countries have trained instead of providing training for our own people isn't something that anyone should be championing. We've got 1,000s of people doing media studies/film degrees etc that would jump at the chance to work for a company like Aardman and if they think that universities aren't providing training to get them up to scratch to enter the workforce then they should be working with them to improve their course content.
It didn't take long for the deflection to start did it?

Funny how companies leaving immediately after brexit isn't brexit. So where are the lies in your "defence" I guess the first is that there are things in the article stat are specific to brexit. In this case the fact we can't get European animators to come over here.

I know brexitists HAVE to lie, but did you think no one would actually read the articles?
 
It didn't take long for the deflection to start did it?

Funny how companies leaving immediately after brexit isn't brexit. So where are the lies in your "defence" I guess the first is that there are things in the article stat are specific to brexit. In this case the fact we can't get European animators to come over here.

I know brexitists HAVE to lie, but did you think no one would actually read the articles?
I assume you haven't read it. I would be very surprised if you've even got past the headline. As a Tory I am shocked you are even reading the Guardian and I'm guessing it's just popped up on your anti-Brexit alarm and you've posted it without any scrutiny.

Not being able to get Animators isn't the main issue. Lack of trained staff is a problem and the solution shouldn't be to import more but to train more. The main problem is the tax relief which is not a Brexit issue. If we could import all the animators we wanted then the primary problem of other countries offering more tax relief would still be there.

In an 800+ word article this is the only mention of Brexit "Clarke blamed Brexit for making it harder to bring over European animators and for the loss of access to vital European media funding.". That includes no direct quotes or any explanation of what Brexit is preventing. The entire reason the article exists can be explained by this line "He spoke out as the government was conducting a consultation on audio-visual tax reliefs, due to close on 9 February.". It's nothing but a company adding its opinion to get favourable tax relief.
 
Surprised so much still happens in Europe/UK, any time an animation credits roll it seems so much of this is outsourced now to china and Korea
 
I assume you haven't read it. I would be very surprised if you've even got past the headline. As a Tory I am shocked you are even reading the Guardian and I'm guessing it's just popped up on your anti-Brexit alarm and you've posted it without any scrutiny.

Not being able to get Animators isn't the main issue.
It's literally in the article. Yet you said it wasn't.
 
It's literally in the article. Yet you said it wasn't.
It's not the main issue though, is it?

The article headline is "Wallace and Gromit maker warns UK animators may have to move abroad". The reason for that is because of the tax relief. Not being able to get animators from the EU would be a problem they are having but it wouldn't cause them to move abroad and their proposed solution is that we should be able to use tax relief to improve infrastructure and training. "It’s amplified at the moment because a lot of countries are more competitive with tax credits and they’re building infrastructure, both in terms of studios and training. Training is broken in this country. There is no infrastructure to train and nurture the next generation of talent for film and television generally. “We’ve had to set up our own academy over the last 10 years to train people because graduates from colleges and universities are not production-ready.”"

The tax relief issue is the only thing that would cause them to move abroad so no, Brexit isn't to blame (not that hey will move abroad, they are just saying that is a possibility if they don't get the tax relief that they want). As @ThatFragranceGuy says China/Korea are where the best animators are so if there was an actual shortage of animators and we needed to import them then we are more likely to be able to import them from there than we would have been pre-Brexit. If there isn't a shortage then we don't need to import them anyway. We have the people that want to do these jobs and we have the businesses that want to train them but they are asking for parity of tax relief with other competitive countries so thy can invest in that training and that is 100% non-Brexit related as it would have been the same situation within the EU.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to post. You are completely disingenuous. As usual you have been shown up to be wrong again and I expect this is the last we hear from you on this topic.
 
...they are asking for parity of tax relief with other competitive countries so thy can invest in that training and that is 100% non-Brexit related as it would have been the same situation within the EU.
Surely the massive hole in the UK finances due directly to Brexit are a major factor in the government not being able to offer tax relief in line with other countries?
 
It's not the main issue though, is it?

The article headline is "Wallace and Gromit maker warns UK animators may have to move abroad". The reason for that is because of the tax relief. Not being able to get animators from the EU would be a problem they are having but it wouldn't cause them to move abroad and their proposed solution is that we should be able to use tax relief to improve infrastructure and training. "It’s amplified at the moment because a lot of countries are more competitive with tax credits and they’re building infrastructure, both in terms of studios and training. Training is broken in this country. There is no infrastructure to train and nurture the next generation of talent for film and television generally. “We’ve had to set up our own academy over the last 10 years to train people because graduates from colleges and universities are not production-ready.”"

The tax relief issue is the only thing that would cause them to move abroad so no, Brexit isn't to blame (not that hey will move abroad, they are just saying that is a possibility if they don't get the tax relief that they want). As @ThatFragranceGuy says China/Korea are where the best animators are so if there was an actual shortage of animators and we needed to import them then we are more likely to be able to import them from there than we would have been pre-Brexit. If there isn't a shortage then we don't need to import them anyway. We have the people that want to do these jobs and we have the businesses that want to train them but they are asking for parity of tax relief with other competitive countries so thy can invest in that training and that is 100% non-Brexit related as it would have been the same situation within the EU.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to post. You are completely disingenuous. As usual you have been shown up to be wrong again and I expect this is the last we hear from you on this topic.
you said

Nothing about Brexit changes the situation in the article.
Which is a lie.
 
It's not the main issue though, is it?

The article headline is "Wallace and Gromit maker warns UK animators may have to move abroad". The reason for that is because of the tax relief. Not being able to get animators from the EU would be a problem they are having but it wouldn't cause them to move abroad and their proposed solution is that we should be able to use tax relief to improve infrastructure and training. "It’s amplified at the moment because a lot of countries are more competitive with tax credits and they’re building infrastructure, both in terms of studios and training. Training is broken in this country. There is no infrastructure to train and nurture the next generation of talent for film and television generally. “We’ve had to set up our own academy over the last 10 years to train people because graduates from colleges and universities are not production-ready.”"

The tax relief issue is the only thing that would cause them to move abroad so no, Brexit isn't to blame (not that hey will move abroad, they are just saying that is a possibility if they don't get the tax relief that they want). As @ThatFragranceGuy says China/Korea are where the best animators are so if there was an actual shortage of animators and we needed to import them then we are more likely to be able to import them from there than we would have been pre-Brexit. If there isn't a shortage then we don't need to import them anyway. We have the people that want to do these jobs and we have the businesses that want to train them but they are asking for parity of tax relief with other competitive countries so thy can invest in that training and that is 100% non-Brexit related as it would have been the same situation within the EU.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to post. You are completely disingenuous. As usual you have been shown up to be wrong again and I expect this is the last we hear from you on this topic.
You’re right, the article doesn’t point to the main reason being Brexit, it’s the other culprit……..Tories!!
 
Surely the massive hole in the UK finances due directly to Brexit are a major factor in the government not being able to offer tax relief in line with other countries?
I would assume so. Brexit is actually exacerbating Brexit issues, as well as exacerbating other issues. Brexit squared if you will!
 
Surely the massive hole in the UK finances due directly to Brexit are a major factor in the government not being able to offer tax relief in line with other countries?
Nope. See below. Tories cut funding for everything they can. Nothing about Brexit is preventing them replacing the funding other than Tory ideology.
You’re right, the article doesn’t point to the main reason being Brexit, it’s the other culprit……..Tories!!
 
Nothing about Brexit is preventing them replacing the funding other than Tory ideology.
Nothing - apart from the massive hole in UK finances caused by Brexit.

Tory ideology is appalling too and they have form for not supporting the arts but you can't pretend that Brexit isn't a large factor in the current economic crisis.
 
Nothing - apart from the massive hole in UK finances caused by Brexit.

Tory ideology is appalling too and they have form for not supporting the arts but you can't pretend that Brexit isn't a large factor in the current economic crisis.
He can pretend it. And that's the issue we face in this country isn't it? The brexiteers were conned. We know they were conned, they must know they were conned. They don't want to admit it so the come up with every desperate attempt to deflect from it. As predicted in my opening post.

It's tragic
 
you said


Which is a lie.
No it isn't. Brexit would not be a consideration for them moving abroad. The tax relief situation would be. I'm loathe to repeat myself because you've already ignored the explanation 3 times but if the industry had the tax relief (which Brexit is neither enabling or preventing) then they could spend on training and infrastructure so wouldn't need to import European animators and they wouldn't need EU funding either.

The gist of the article is actually reduce tax and we can offer more jobs and training to people from the UK without them having to compete with EU nationals which would actually be a Brexit benefit.

Nothing - apart from the massive hole in UK finances caused by Brexit.

Tory ideology is appalling too and they have form for not supporting the arts but you can't pretend that Brexit isn't a large factor in the current economic crisis.
We have the money to fund the things we want but the Tories choose to help themselves. We could be the richest nation in the World and they'd still cut funding if there was the opportunity to divert it into their own pockets. SmallTown will deflect as usual because I've never known anyone bash other people for a decision they made themselves as much as he does. The Tories are 100% to blame but that's brexit voters fault, not Tory voters apparently.

I'm not going to say that Brexit is perfect and this is the sort of thing I expected when I said SmallTown would change subject. On this isolated topic Brexit is nothing to do with Aardman's decision to move (if they ever do). I expect that many things will improve when the Tories are no longer stinking up the place and the relationship with the EU will be more co-operative than adversarial as it has been under this incompetent lot.

VITAL.

Or not.

That is the question.

Or is it Brexit?
Without any numbers I'd guess that an article asking for something (tax relief) will use hyperbole and exaggeration so every £ would be considered vital but that's not the same as it being necessary. Find some numbers for this funding, show it is greater than the value they declare as profit and then it can be considered vital instead of nice to have.
 
No it isn't. Brexit would not be a consideration for them moving abroad. The tax relief situation would be. I'm loathe to repeat myself because you've already ignored the explanation 3 times but if the industry had the tax relief (which Brexit is neither enabling or preventing) then they could spend on training and infrastructure so wouldn't need to import European animators and they wouldn't need EU funding either.

The gist of the article is actually reduce tax and we can offer more jobs and training to people from the UK without them having to compete with EU nationals which would actually be a Brexit benefit.


We have the money to fund the things we want but the Tories choose to help themselves. We could be the richest nation in the World and they'd still cut funding if there was the opportunity to divert it into their own pockets. SmallTown will deflect as usual because I've never known anyone bash other people for a decision they made themselves as much as he does. The Tories are 100% to blame but that's brexit voters fault, not Tory voters apparently.

I'm not going to say that Brexit is perfect and this is the sort of thing I expected when I said SmallTown would change subject. On this isolated topic Brexit is nothing to do with Aardman's decision to move (if they ever do). I expect that many things will improve when the Tories are no longer stinking up the place and the relationship with the EU will be more co-operative than adversarial as it has been under this incompetent lot.


Without any numbers I'd guess that an article asking for something (tax relief) will use hyperbole and exaggeration so every £ would be considered vital but that's not the same as it being necessary. Find some numbers for this funding, show it is greater than the value they declare as profit and then it can be considered vital instead of nice to have.
You're trying really hard to deflect. The truth is, they cited one of the reasons for moving abroad was being unable to get decent animators from Europe (Direct words from the animators themselves). You know and I know, that is directly to do with Brexit. No question about it. Agin it's almost tragic how hard you people try and recover from the fact you were conned
 
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