Teesside Airport - more route cuts

Acklam_Lad said:
The best bit was our group of 4 were near the back so we’re one of the last through. Don’t know if the guy was trying to be funny or was just an **** but as I handed our 4 passports over he asked if we were travelling as a family…

I sarcastically said ‘no, I’m travelling with three random people who happen to have the same surname and two of which are children.’

He didn’t see the funny side of it
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Try that in the U.S.A and you'd have probably been detained for a few hours haha.
 
changingman said:
This is an interesting point - why wasn't this brought up earlier. Is it really external factors (Covid) which have led to it's current predicament or was the business case never watertight?

Even pre-Covid it seemed shaky that the region could support two airports (Newcastle being the other).

Same issue plagued the Doncaster airport - it's not ideal that it's gone - but in 8 years of living in South Yorkshire I've used it exactly 0 times, whereas I fly out of Manchester approx 10-12 times a year.
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This is the thing, everyone I know who still lives in Teesside comes over here several times a year. Occasionally they go to Newcastle.

But the concept of going straight to Schiphol then jumping on a plane to anywhere in the world doesn't seem to be working and can only assume people aren't willing to pay a premium to do so.
 
changingman said:
This is an interesting point - why wasn't this brought up earlier. Is it really external factors (Covid) which have led to it's current predicament or was the business case never watertight?

Even pre-Covid it seemed shaky that the region could support two airports (Newcastle being the other).

Same issue plagued the Doncaster airport - it's not ideal that it's gone - but in 8 years of living in South Yorkshire I've used it exactly 0 times, whereas I fly out of Manchester approx 10-12 times a year.
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The business case was never going to work; theres not enough demand.

If they were genuinely expecting the increase in passengers promised by Houchen, they'd be working on public transport links to the airport. They're not.
 
changingman said:
This is an interesting point - why wasn't this brought up earlier. Is it really external factors (Covid) which have led to it's current predicament or was the business case never watertight?

Even pre-Covid it seemed shaky that the region could support two airports (Newcastle being the other).

Same issue plagued the Doncaster airport - it's not ideal that it's gone - but in 8 years of living in South Yorkshire I've used it exactly 0 times, whereas I fly out of Manchester approx 10-12 times a year.
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The business case was always ridiculous but I think they're still saying 1m passengers within a couple of years which just isn't going to happen. Parochial love for Teesside apart, most people when flying will go to Newcastle Leeds or even Manchester because of better flight times, cheaper flights, better facilities and they're easy to get to.

Peel got teesside to its record numbers after taking over a failing airport. It was the global crash which scuppered it and once the damage was done it is going to be (and proving to be) very expensive to reverse and expect we are subsidising all these flights until they end the minimum term

Houchen is no dope and will have been well aware of this but like American Mary said it has been his shining horse to ride in on, and he isn't about to let it bolt until he is free and clear. He weaponised this plan by creating a site and in the same vein of Johnson, had the tagline of "back bens plan" with a call to action to essentially harass your local councillors and a pre-fire salvo of "i know labour will want to block this".

Covid had been absolutely marvellous for houchen because for the last 2 years and probably at least the next 3 we will be using "Covid impacts" as an excuse for more losses, more investment needed etc meanwhile he has had a payrise and runourd circulate about him being elevated to a lordship

Anyone against him is, like the rest of the tories, anti Teesside, anti growth, anti jobs and "always have to see the downside in everything."
 
atypical_boro said:
This is the thing, everyone I know who still lives in Teesside comes over here several times a year. Occasionally they go to Newcastle.

But the concept of going straight to Schiphol then jumping on a plane to anywhere in the world doesn't seem to be working and can only assume people aren't willing to pay a premium to do so.
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I used Teesside/Schiphol for quite a few years when based in USA. It was the fastest and often the cheapest option. Is the early morning Schiphol flight no longer available?
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
The business case was always ridiculous but I think they're still saying 1m passengers within a couple of years which just isn't going to happen. Parochial love for Teesside apart, most people when flying will go to Newcastle Leeds or even Manchester because of better flight times, cheaper flights, better facilities and they're easy to get to.

Peel got teesside to its record numbers after taking over a failing airport. It was the global crash which scuppered it and once the damage was done it is going to be (and proving to be) very expensive to reverse and expect we are subsidising all these flights until they end the minimum term

Houchen is no dope and will have been well aware of this but like American Mary said it has been his shining horse to ride in on, and he isn't about to let it bolt until he is free and clear. He weaponised this plan by creating a site and in the same vein of Johnson, had the tagline of "back bens plan" with a call to action to essentially harass your local councillors and a pre-fire salvo of "i know labour will want to block this".

Covid had been absolutely marvellous for houchen because for the last 2 years and probably at least the next 3 we will be using "Covid impacts" as an excuse for more losses, more investment needed etc meanwhile he has had a payrise and runourd circulate about him being elevated to a lordship

Anyone against him is, like the rest of the tories, anti Teesside, anti growth, anti jobs and "always have to see the downside in everything."
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Exactly as I suspected. Not only is it a fallacy built on bull5hit, it's also a colossal waste of money.

A mature politician would have made that case to the electorate - "yes, we might all want this but here's why it won't work and would waste money....which could be spent on XYZ".

Unfortunately Houchen is a self-centred narcissist and a complete cretin to boot and therefore completely unable to either understand, nor make, a compelling case to the electorate.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
I used Teesside/Schiphol for quite a few years when based in USA. It was the fastest and often the cheapest option. Is the early morning Schiphol flight no longer available?
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I've no idea what time it is, but whenever I've asked anyone about using it they've just said its very expensive. If its a family of 4 it will often be way more economical to jump in the car to a bigger airport I guess where flights are cheaper.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
The business case was always ridiculous but I think they're still saying 1m passengers within a couple of years which just isn't going to happen. Parochial love for Teesside apart, most people when flying will go to Newcastle Leeds or even Manchester because of better flight times, cheaper flights, better facilities and they're easy to get to.



Anyone against him is, like the rest of the tories, anti Teesside, anti growth, anti jobs and "always have to see the downside in everything."
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I don't understand why anyone who lives on Teesside doesn't want the airport to succeed, other than for the fact it is supported by a Tory mayor. If the flight times or fares don't suit, then don't use it, but don't denigrate people who do because of political beliefs.

Manchester and Leeds easy to get to? Is that a joke? From Teesside it's a trip through Poole in Wharfedale (usually in the middle of the night), and to Manchester it's the M62, with all its weather implications. If you can get the train to Manchester, fair enough, but it's hardly what you would term as an easy journey.

Tory mayor or not, it's better for Teesside to have an airport.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
The business case was always ridiculous but I think they're still saying 1m passengers within a couple of years which just isn't going to happen. Parochial love for Teesside apart, most people when flying will go to Newcastle Leeds or even Manchester because of better flight times, cheaper flights, better facilities and they're easy to get to.

Peel got teesside to its record numbers after taking over a failing airport. It was the global crash which scuppered it and once the damage was done it is going to be (and proving to be) very expensive to reverse and expect we are subsidising all these flights until they end the minimum term

Houchen is no dope and will have been well aware of this but like American Mary said it has been his shining horse to ride in on, and he isn't about to let it bolt until he is free and clear. He weaponised this plan by creating a site and in the same vein of Johnson, had the tagline of "back bens plan" with a call to action to essentially harass your local councillors and a pre-fire salvo of "i know labour will want to block this".

Covid had been absolutely marvellous for houchen because for the last 2 years and probably at least the next 3 we will be using "Covid impacts" as an excuse for more losses, more investment needed etc meanwhile he has had a payrise and runourd circulate about him being elevated to a lordship

Anyone against him is, like the rest of the tories, anti Teesside, anti growth, anti jobs and "always have to see the downside in everything."
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Let’s not pretend that a global crash caused the demise of the airport. A private business looking to maximise an asset for profit rather than the public good caused the demise. Exactly the same as Doncaster/Sheffield.

I’m not saying the mayor has done all the right things by any stretch, but the airport was viable for decades and broadly I think most are in favour of it being an asset in public ownership rather than sold off for housing to private developers.

And as for Manchester Leeds and Newcastle, there’s not a single place in teesside that it’s easier to get to them than Teesside Airport.
 
Soutra said:
I don't understand why anyone who lives on Teesside doesn't want the airport to succeed, other than for the fact it is supported by a Tory mayor. If the flight times or fares don't suit, then don't use it, but don't denigrate people who do because of political beliefs.

Manchester and Leeds easy to get to? Is that a joke? From Teesside it's a trip through Poole in Wharfedale (usually in the middle of the night), and to Manchester it's the M62, with all its weather implications. If you can get the train to Manchester, fair enough, but it's hardly what you would term as an easy journey.

Tory mayor or not, it's better for Teesside to have an airport
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Everyone wants it to succeed!

People just don't want £20m of our transport budget spent on it every year when zero is spent on the bus network!
 
Air Resistance said:
Let’s not pretend that a global crash caused the demise of the airport. A private business looking to maximise an asset for profit rather than the public good caused the demise. Exactly the same as Doncaster/Sheffield.

I’m not saying the mayor has done all the right things by any stretch, but the airport was viable for decades and broadly I think most are in favour of it being an asset in public ownership rather than sold off for housing to private developers.

And as for Manchester Leeds and Newcastle, there’s not a single place in teesside that it’s easier to get to them than Teesside Airport.
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The airport was a dead duck when Peel bought it out. It briefly turned it around but the uptick wasn't sustainable. It still isn't.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
I used Teesside/Schiphol for quite a few years when based in USA. It was the fastest and often the cheapest option. Is the early morning Schiphol flight no longer available?
Click to expand...
atypical_boro said:
I've no idea what time it is, but whenever I've asked anyone about using it they've just said its very expensive. If its a family of 4 it will often be way more economical to jump in the car to a bigger airport I guess where flights are cheaper.
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It's still available - 6am most mornings

It's also pretty cheap. A return is £95-130 every day next week. The same flight from Newcastle is £95-105, and Leeds ranges from £75 to £160.
 
Soutra said:
I don't understand why anyone who lives on Teesside doesn't want the airport to succeed, other than for the fact it is supported by a Tory mayor. If the flight times or fares don't suit, then don't use it, but don't denigrate people who do because of political beliefs.

Manchester and Leeds easy to get to? Is that a joke? From Teesside it's a trip through Poole in Wharfedale (usually in the middle of the night), and to Manchester it's the M62, with all its weather implications. If you can get the train to Manchester, fair enough, but it's hardly what you would term as an easy journey.

Tory mayor or not, it's better for Teesside to have an airport.
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Who doesn't want it to succeed? I would genuinely love to have an airport as flexible as Newcastle/Leeds on my doorstep, with buses and trains going to the terminal like you can at Newcastle.

Labour council, Tory mayor, it doesn't matter - it is not sustainable and never will be. Whatever we are paying now to get passengers and flights going, would need to increase exponentially to hit the volumes they're on about which are complete fluff.

I flew from Manchester 2 weeks ago and set off at 5am, painless journey with one toilet break for the mrs. Nice early flight that meant we weren't getting to the destination at 6pm to waste a day. Flown from there quite a lot and never had any issues. You can even get a national express to Manchester from Teesside yet I think we have one bus to the airport on our doorstep?

Likewise Leeds, girlfriends family always fly from there when we do family holidays with them. Doorstep to terminal its about 1 hour 15. good range of flights, don't like it as much as Newcastle, but its fine.

We normally go via Newcastle and either drive or get the metro straight to the terminal.

So not sure why any of that is a joke, never had any trouble getting to these airports and any extra cost has always been more than offset by better times for flights, choice of multiple flights & airlines, cheaper tickets etc and all round better airport experience.

Air Resistance said:
Let’s not pretend that a global crash caused the demise of the airport. A private business looking to maximise an asset for profit rather than the public good caused the demise. Exactly the same as Doncaster/Sheffield.

I’m not saying the mayor has done all the right things by any stretch, but the airport was viable for decades and broadly I think most are in favour of it being an asset in public ownership rather than sold off for housing to private developers.

And as for Manchester Leeds and Newcastle, there’s not a single place in teesside that it’s easier to get to them than Teesside Airport.
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Airport would have eventually failed anyway as businesses need to make money but lets not pretend that the financial crisis wasn't the turning point for Teesside airport.

1671556619775.png

Above chart shows when Peel bought Teesside Airport (in pink) after years of losses - they invested in the airport initially and got 4 consecutive years of growth including 2 years of double digit growth, peaking at 917k passengers.

In Yellow I have highlighted the year of the financial crisis and this, coupled with losing low cost carriers and other disputes, and things like the passenger fee, dated facilities etc started an 11 year cycle of declining passenger numbers.

"Passenger numbers peaked in 2006 when the airport was used by 917,963 passengers. However, since the 2007-2008 financial crisis, numbers declined to 130,911 in 2017 before starting to rise again in 2018. A side effect of the crisis saw a number of airline bankruptcies or mergers, greatly reducing the number of potential operators for the airport to pursue. Those that merged consolidated at the larger regional airports, leading to the likes of Newcastle and Leeds expanding, whilst local airports such as Durham Tees Valley continued to struggle for several years"

Passenger numbers have only gone up because we have subsidised flights, how long can that realistically continue? Someone posted a figure before of how much we'd paid per passenger and it was a bit shocking, but cba to hunt down the post. The business case was for a 10-fold increase in passenger numbers which was b***ks before covid and pure fantasy now.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
Who doesn't want it to succeed? I would genuinely love to have an airport as flexible as Newcastle/Leeds on my doorstep, with buses and trains going to the terminal like you can at Newcastle.

Labour council, Tory mayor, it doesn't matter - it is not sustainable and never will be. Whatever we are paying now to get passengers and flights going, would need to increase exponentially to hit the volumes they're on about which are complete fluff.

I flew from Manchester 2 weeks ago and set off at 5am, painless journey with one toilet break for the mrs. Nice early flight that meant we weren't getting to the destination at 6pm to waste a day. Flown from there quite a lot and never had any issues. You can even get a national express to Manchester from Teesside yet I think we have one bus to the airport on our doorstep?

Likewise Leeds, girlfriends family always fly from there when we do family holidays with them. Doorstep to terminal its about 1 hour 15. good range of flights, don't like it as much as Newcastle, but its fine.

We normally go via Newcastle and either drive or get the metro straight to the terminal.

So not sure why any of that is a joke, never had any trouble getting to these airports and any extra cost has always been more than offset by better times for flights, choice of multiple flights & airlines, cheaper tickets etc and all round better airport experience.


Airport would have eventually failed anyway as businesses need to make money but lets not pretend that the financial crisis wasn't the turning point for Teesside airport.

View attachment 49604

Above chart shows when Peel bought Teesside Airport (in pink) after years of losses - they invested in the airport initially and got 4 consecutive years of growth including 2 years of double digit growth, peaking at 917k passengers.

In Yellow I have highlighted the year of the financial crisis and this, coupled with losing low cost carriers and other disputes, and things like the passenger fee, dated facilities etc started an 11 year cycle of declining passenger numbers.

"Passenger numbers peaked in 2006 when the airport was used by 917,963 passengers. However, since the 2007-2008 financial crisis, numbers declined to 130,911 in 2017 before starting to rise again in 2018. A side effect of the crisis saw a number of airline bankruptcies or mergers, greatly reducing the number of potential operators for the airport to pursue. Those that merged consolidated at the larger regional airports, leading to the likes of Newcastle and Leeds expanding, whilst local airports such as Durham Tees Valley continued to struggle for several years"

Passenger numbers have only gone up because we have subsidised flights, how long can that realistically continue? Someone posted a figure before of how much we'd paid per passenger and it was a bit shocking, but cba to hunt down the post. The business case was for a 10-fold increase in passenger numbers which was b***ks before covid and pure fantasy now.
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You're championing Manchester Newcastle and Leeds and slagging Teesside off for poor footfall.

Is it any wonder its under used with an attitude like that?
 
joeydiaz said:
Try that in the U.S.A and you'd have probably been detained for a few hours haha.
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I went to Ohio once, when I was going through TSA border control at Kentucky airport, he asked what I had in the bag. Told him chemical weapons. He looked at me sideways and I pulled out a tube of deodorant. Asked me if I was being funny.

'Apparently not' got me 2 hours being interviewed about why I was coming to the US.

Yanks have no sense of humour :)
 
BaronSmoggie said:
I went to Ohio once, when I was going through TSA border control at Kentucky airport, he asked what I had in the bag. Told him chemical weapons. He looked at me sideways and I pulled out a tube of deodorant. Asked me if I was being funny.

'Apparently not' got me 2 hours being interviewed about why I was coming to the US.

Yanks have no sense of humour :)
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When The family and I were coming back from New York and going through security 2 X rather large security men asked me if I was traveling alone ,so I pointed to the family coming behind and replied "unfortunately not" he whispered if it would be OK to play a trick on them which I obviously agreed to straight away. So they announced loudly that they would have to take me into the office for a search, whilst both were putting blue gloves on . After a couple of minutes we came out and they informed my wife that they found something on me so would not be travelling home ,to which my wife yelled " He can't he has to go to work on Wed ,to which the Security men and myself burst out laughing . Good craic all over the world
 
Ash88 said:
It's still available - 6am most mornings

It's also pretty cheap. A return is £95-130 every day next week. The same flight from Newcastle is £95-105, and Leeds ranges from £75 to £160.
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Fair enough, not bad really. Can only assume the timing of it means it doesn’t connect all that well to other flights in Amsterdam. Dunno?
 
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