Keir Starmer - FoM now a red-line

:ROFLMAO: this threads gotten round to a point now where people who are saying we all must vote Labour to get the tories out, are admonishing the last Labour leader cause he should have instructed the party's MPs to all vote to keep the tories in in 2019.

Its beyond silly. There's much less convoluted things than this to hold against Corbyn.
 
SuperStu said:
:ROFLMAO: this threads gotten round to a point now where people who are saying we all must vote Labour to get the tories out, are admonishing the last Labour leader cause he should have instructed the party's MPs to all vote to keep the tories in in 2019.

Its beyond silly. There's much less convoluted things than this to hold against Corbyn.
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Um no, now you're making stuff up. Labour fell into a trap and could have avoided it but choose not to leading to an election backed by the Lib Dems and SNP.

At no point was anyone suggesting Labour should have keep the Johnson zombie government in power.
 
ForssAwakens said:
He was electable, he got 40% of people voting for him
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It's not electable when the other side gets more, and win far more seats. It's a crap game, but that's the game we have to play.

Don't forget JC was up against May and BJ who were not exactly liked or competent, respectively. Had he been up against even an average Tory he would probably have lost by considerably more.
 
SuperStu said:
:ROFLMAO: this threads gotten round to a point now where people who are saying we all must vote Labour to get the tories out, are admonishing the last Labour leader cause he should have instructed the party's MPs to all vote to keep the tories in in 2019.

Its beyond silly. There's much less convoluted things than this to hold against Corbyn.
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I think it's just one person to be fair.

I never even knew about the Ken Clarke thing at the time. That can't have been serious.

I always blamed Jo F***ing Swinson for that anyway. Lib Dems supposedly the party of remain and she couldn't put aside petty party politics for 5 mins to avoid a cliff edge brexit. As if it F***ing mattered who the leader of any coalition was going to be. It was only going to be time limited to achieve a specific aim. And of course it should've been the leader of the largest party.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Because in 2019 a second vote was not part of Labour's plans. Nobody gave him permission to say that and Corbyn and McDonnell had no idea that he was going to say that. Neither did Gen Sec of the Unite union Len McCluskey. It took everybody by surprise.
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Out of interest, why didn't Corbyn sack Starmer?
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Because in 2019 a second vote was not part of Labour's plans. Nobody gave him permission to say that and Corbyn and McDonnell had no idea that he was going to say that. Neither did Gen Sec of the Unite union Len McCluskey. It took everybody by surprise.
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Apart from what Corbyn said a week before...

www.theguardian.com

Jeremy Corbyn: I’ll stay neutral and let the people decide on Brexit

Labour leader’s call for ‘sensible’ deal is signal to party that he will resist call to pick sides
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
BoroFur said:
Out of interest, why didn't Corbyn sack Starmer?
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You might call it weakness. You might call it too compromising. Whatever else he was, he really tried to get/keep all factions of the party onside.

I suppose contextually it was different then as well. Everything Corvyn said or did was blown up to a massive proportion. Sacking Starmer would have got him a massive reaction from the press and the right of the party.
 
ForssAwakens said:
He was electable, he got 40% of people voting for him
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I voted for him, as did 13 million others.

The problem was that despite Theresa May’s appalling election campaign, Corbyn also mobilised 14 million Tories who made sure he didn’t get in.

And this is the problem, the Tories can easily run the fear agenda against the more radical Labour leaders and in a country rooted in the feudal system that is enough.

As said above you have to live in the world as it is not as you would like it to be.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I voted for him, as did 13 million others.

The problem was that despite Theresa May’s appalling election campaign, Corbyn also mobilised 14 million Tories who made sure he didn’t get in.

And this is the problem, the Tories can easily run the fear agenda against the more radical Labour leaders and in a country rooted in the feudal system that is enough.

As said above you have to live in the world as it is not as you would like it to be.
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If, through history people had just lived in the world as it is, we wouldn't have universal male suffrage or even universal suffrage. We wouldn't have trade unions, we wouldn't even have the Labour Party. Working people have only ever improved their lot, through protest and direct action. Everything we have left and which hasn't yet been taken away from us, is down to resistance and organised action against the status quo at the time. I've said this before, but from the day I was born, there has been a class war fought in this country and I know which side has been winning it for most of my life.
 
HolgateCorner said:
As said above you have to live in the world as it is not as you would like it to be.
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Sure but we all have a different view on what "the world as it is" actually means. To me TWAII is that incrementalism doesn't work, that the country's been moving to the right for 40 years & this is the cause of a lot of our problems, and that we'll never even start to move left unless there are politician's and political parties willing to advocate to do so.
 
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