What a mistake sacking Wilder.

Expat Smoggie said:
The whole situation with the Warnock out Wilder in was handled so poorly. I felt embarrassed for MFC that we discarded NW like a stray dog and brought in someone who had possibly had some baggage at his previous club.

Warnock had done a very decent job, all things considered, even though he knew he was a temp but we really came out of that looking second rate imo.
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He should have been allowed to ride off into the sunset the previous summer.
 
BobendBert said:
The facts are straightforward. Wilder has been successful (and not just a little bit successful but very successful) at every club he's been at.

Boro, on the other hand, have gone through 5 managers in 5 seasons getting progressively worse along the way.

It is clear that Wilder was a good appointment and it was definitely a mistake to sack him. The problems to me seem to stem from the structure. We either don't get in managers that understand or buy into the structure or we don't keep our end of the bargain or the structure is implemented really badly. It's probably a combination of all 3.

I think the truth is that he went outside of his comfort zone with Karanka, gave him free reign free reign and he didn't like it so then retreated to what he knew, taking back full control over something he doesn't have the ability to run properly. Insular and small time thinking.

Wilder seems to have gone down the same path. So the so called 'structure' has cost us good managers.
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How have we got progressively worse when the final league position in the previous three seasons is 17th, 10th and 7th?
 
Boro999 said:
Wilder never had a wandering eye. He wanted success, he wanted backing, he wanted to take boro to the premier league.. he was appointed with false promises..
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He let the club down last season imo.. we missed out on the playoffs by 6 points. The last 8 games he averaged 1 point per game.. 1.75ppg gets us there. He was interested in the Burnley job and our form dropped straight afterwards, sounds like he applied for the Sunderland job in the summer around the time we turned down a deal for Dwight Gayle. He knew the project, it was explained to him and he took the job on that basis.. if he didn’t want to do it, he should have taken the money. The project was explained and promoted by Wilder in press conferences.. it only didn’t suit him when prem money was waved in front of him early doors. He was sacked by the way, he didn’t resign he was touting his wares for a prem job after slagging off players he would later need to rely on.

He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock?
 
Expat Smoggie said:
The whole situation with the Warnock out Wilder in was handled so poorly. I felt embarrassed for MFC that we discarded NW like a stray dog and brought in someone who had possibly had some baggage at his previous club.

Warnock had done a very decent job, all things considered, even though he knew he was a temp but we really came out of that looking second rate imo.
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We’ve handled the replacement of most of our managers in the Gibson era poorly. I also remember the saying about not s***ing on people on your way up because you might need them on the way down!

Wilder’s position ultimately became untenable, but I personally don’t think that was necessarily Wilder’s fault. Hopefully with the next incumbent we’ll be a bit more open to compromise and we’ll appoint someone who is prepared to learn and work with us.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
How have we got progressively worse when the final league position in the previous three seasons is 17th, 10th and 7th?
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That's a fair point and good challenge. I base it on where I think we are today versus where we were immediately post-Karanka. I genuinely think we are in real trouble this season. I've said a few times now in my 60 something years of syupporting Boro I have seen a lot of teams relegated. They all look and feel the same as this one does.
 
newyddion said:
He let the club down last season imo.. we missed out on the playoffs by 6 points. The last 8 games he averaged 1 point per game.. 1.75ppg gets us there. He was interested in the Burnley job and our form dropped straight afterwards, sounds like he applied for the Sunderland job in the summer around the time we turned down a deal for Dwight Gayle. He knew the project, it was explained to him and he took the job on that basis.. if he didn’t want to do it, he should have taken the money. The project was explained and promoted by Wilder in press conferences.. it only didn’t suit him when prem money was waved in front of him early doors. He was sacked by the way, he didn’t resign he was touting his wares for a prem job after slagging off players he would later need to rely on.

He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock?
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Wrong.
 
BobendBert said:
That's a fair point and good challenge. I base it on where I think we are today versus where we were immediately post-Karanka. I genuinely think we are in real trouble this season. I've said a few times now in my 60 something years of syupporting Boro I have seen a lot of teams relegated. They all look and feel the same as this one does.
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It’s an interesting debate. I think we *should* have too much to be in the bottom three or four places for very long, but any new manager needs to nail down a preferred back-line and build out from there. If we do that then you’d think with Jones and Giles playing further forwards maybe, with Muniz, Akpom, Forss and Watmore around, there’s enough to get enough goals and wins to move us away from danger.

I sense it’s quite like 2013/14 in that it looks and feels a bit worse than it actually is. It’s in desperate need of a Karanka-type appointment, someone to drill them and organise it and find a way to stitch the team together. The nature of this league means that 3 or 4 wins can dramatically change a season.

I’m optimistic we can move forwards in the next couple of months/up to the World Cup. I don’t think we’ll be in a relegation scrap.
 
r00fie1 said:
All that stuff about demonising Neil Warnock is like the media creation of a war between Oasis and Blur in the 90s.
It didnt exist.
But its good copy.
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He wasn’t demonised. He got a great send off at West Brom. If he brought a team back up to Teesside in the future he’d get a good reception. Which is a bit mad because if crowds had been allowed in near the end of his full season in charge, he’d have been slaughtered for the way his team buckled and faded away from contention… especially after that performance against Wycombe.
 
r00fie1 said:
All that stuff about demonising Neil Warnock is like the media creation of a war between Oasis and Blur in the 90s.
It didnt exist.
But its good copy.
Click to expand...
He wasn’t demonised. He got a great send off at West Brom. If he brought a team back up to Teesside in the future he’d get a good reception. Which is a bit mad because if crowds had been allowed in near the end of his full season in charge, he’d have been slaughtered for the way his team buckled and faded away from contention… especially after that performance against Wycombe.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He wasn’t demonised. He got a great send off at West Brom. If he brought a team back up to Teesside in the future he’d get a good reception. Which is a bit mad because if crowds had been allowed in near the end of his full season in charge, he’d have been slaughtered for the way his team buckled and faded away from contention… especially after that performance against Wycombe.
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No.
I think you misread the post >>>
I read the comment that Wilder demonised Neil Warnock from Newyddidion: -

"He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock? "

I dont agree that Warnock was demonised by Wilder(y)
 
Sentiment allowed us to give Warnock one last shot at promotion, probably out of gratitude for what he had done during lockdown. However, that’s no way to run a business or football club. We either should have gone all out with his last season or more sensibly said thanks very much and happy retirement at the end of 20/21.

Wilder seemed to have an issue with Warnock and vice-versa, never got to the bottom of what that was all about. Would love to know!
 
r00fie1 said:
No.
I think you misread the post >>>
I read the comment that Wilder demonised Neil Warnock from Newyddidion: -

"He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock? "

I dont agree that Warnock was demonised by Wilder(y)
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Yerjokinarnya! HE WHOSE NAME WE SHALL NOT SPEAK? He made out like Warnock was friggin Voldermort!!

Warnock's first full season the knives were out, we didn't have the strikers to make an impact on the playoffs.. we gambled on Bolasie and NML to stretch it as far as we could and it wasn't enough. The knives were out in the summer having finished 10th and replicating Aitor Karanka's successful start..

Wilder the Wonderkid, Wilder the saviour etc etc etc he ended up riding the wave of Warnock's good work and then came unstuck when he tried to cash out.
 
r00fie1 said:
No.
I think you misread the post >>>
I read the comment that Wilder demonised Neil Warnock from Newyddidion: -

"He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock? "

I dont agree that Warnock was demonised by Wilder(y)
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Apologies, I did misread it. I don’t think Warnock was demonised by anyone TBH.
 
newyddion said:
Yerjokinarnya! HE WHOSE NAME WE SHALL NOT SPEAK? He made out like Warnock was friggin Voldermort!!

Warnock's first full season the knives were out, we didn't have the strikers to make an impact on the playoffs.. we gambled on Bolasie and NML to stretch it as far as we could and it wasn't enough. The knives were out in the summer having finished 10th and replicating Aitor Karanka's successful start..

Wilder the Wonderkid, Wilder the saviour etc etc etc he ended up riding the wave of Warnock's good work and then came unstuck when he tried to cash out.
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The knives weren’t out at all. The first time there was genuine discontent was when he signed five players in the January and the results dropped off, and then he wrote the remainder of a season off with about a third of it left to play, which obviously made things worse.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The knives weren’t out at all. The first time there was genuine discontent was when he signed five players in the January and the results dropped off, and then he wrote the remainder of a season off with about a third of it left to play, which obviously made things worse.
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Jordan Archer, Darnel Fischer, Neeskens Kebano, Yannick Bolasie & Nathan Mendez Laing..

Seemed decent.. gambled with Bolasie & NML
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
It’s an interesting debate. I think we *should* have too much to be in the bottom three or four places for very long, but any new manager needs to nail down a preferred back-line and build out from there. If we do that then you’d think with Jones and Giles playing further forwards maybe, with Muniz, Akpom, Forss and Watmore around, there’s enough to get enough goals and wins to move us away from danger.

I sense it’s quite like 2013/14 in that it looks and feels a bit worse than it actually is. It’s in desperate need of a Karanka-type appointment, someone to drill them and organise it and find a way to stitch the team together. The nature of this league means that 3 or 4 wins can dramatically change a season.

I’m optimistic we can move forwards in the next couple of months/up to the World Cup. I don’t think we’ll be in a relegation scrap.
Click to expand...

I do hope you are right. It may well be that the scars of previous seasons cloud my judgement!
 
newyddion said:
Yerjokinarnya! HE WHOSE NAME WE SHALL NOT SPEAK? He made out like Warnock was friggin Voldermort!!

Warnock's first full season the knives were out, we didn't have the strikers to make an impact on the playoffs.. we gambled on Bolasie and NML to stretch it as far as we could and it wasn't enough. The knives were out in the summer having finished 10th and replicating Aitor Karanka's successful start..

Wilder the Wonderkid, Wilder the saviour etc etc etc he ended up riding the wave of Warnock's good work and then came unstuck when he tried to cash out.
Click to expand...
Come here and have a big hug and some chocolate digestives 🍵
:love:
 
r00fie1 said:
All that stuff about demonising Neil Warnock is like the media creation of a war between Oasis and Blur in the 90s.
It didnt exist.
But its good copy.
Click to expand...
Wilder has that one good anthem that everybody couldn't stop singing.. somehow convinced folks that he was the next Beatles. He made a right Digsy's Dinner out of it! He Definitely Maybe signed up to the medium to long term project, and peaked with What's the Story? Clearly didn't want to Be Here Now
he was Standing on the Shoulder of Giants.. hardcore fans still Don't Believe the Truth.

Warnock had been at it for longer and was far more accomplished, he gave us The Great Escape!
far from Stereotypes and the story of a Charmless Man, he was a Top Man and we had the Best Days he did Entertain Me.

What are we left with now? You in your parker with sciatica from your daft walk, me in a tracksuit top shouting oi! at everything.

PALLY PARKLIFE!!
 
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