We are in a real mess

Say there were no debt or S G wrote the debt off then ;
A share issue on AIM where fans could invest in the club and attend the annual shareholders meetings to vote on the future of the club.
Tha fans are just mushrooms at the moment.
S G would regain some of his money that way too.
Just a thought.
 
Gibson regularly converts debt equity - once a decade I reckon. So he is doing what you suggest.

The only way we'd get a new owner is if Gibson wrote off what he is currently owned and have the club away. The one thing we know is he will not do that to someone not 100% committed. And those types are in short supply. It's a quandary. I think he is trying to do things better. Bringing in Scott was a huge move for him. But it will take time. We have to be patient and see how it pans out.

I hope the appointment of a young, inventive coach who uses the academy will help long term. That's got to be the goal.


I agree, we look to be in a very similar position to Bolton and when their benefactor gave them up no one rushed to their rescue.
 
Posters looking to blame Gibson after a defeat away to Millwall is a disgrace tbh..
When do we ever get anything down there anyway, they are really strong at home and we are lacking in confidence. The first goal is mega important in this league and unfortunately we concede a fluke goal in the first 10 mins.
You can't blame Downing, Gary O'Neill, Neil Warnock or Wilder so it's Gibson...
Predictable and quite sad really
Thanks 👍
 
Posters looking to blame Gibson after a defeat away to Millwall is a disgrace tbh..
When do we ever get anything down there anyway, they are really strong at home and we are lacking in confidence. The first goal is mega important in this league and unfortunately we concede a fluke goal in the first 10 mins.
You can't blame Downing, Gary O'Neill, Neil Warnock or Wilder so it's Gibson...
Predictable and quite sad really
Thanks 👍
We had a similar issue last season.. we dawdled over transfers which left us thin in certain areas of the squad.. then what do you know it injuries in that area of the squad leaving is up shyts creek. Necessity is the mother of invention, we saw the best under Pulis is similar circumstances, the best of Woodgate too. Wilder didn’t change it up and it doesn’t look as if Leo is going to either. The introduction of Hayden Hackney felt like a step in the right direction.. but how many Hayden Hackney’s have we got?

What’s this Issac Fletcher like?
 
We had a similar issue last season.. we dawdled over transfers which left us thin in certain areas of the squad.. then what do you know it injuries in that area of the squad leaving is up shyts creek. Necessity is the mother of invention, we saw the best under Pulis is similar circumstances, the best of Woodgate too. Wilder didn’t change it up and it doesn’t look as if Leo is going to either. The introduction of Hayden Hackney felt like a step in the right direction.. but how many Hayden Hackney’s have we got?

What’s this Issac Fletcher like?
Don't know much about him other than he was on loan at Hartlepool last season...
 
Gibson regularly converts debt equity - once a decade I reckon. So he is doing what you suggest.

The only way we'd get a new owner is if Gibson wrote off what he is currently owned and have the club away. The one thing we know is he will not do that to someone not 100% committed. And those types are in short supply. It's a quandary. I think he is trying to do things better. Bringing in Scott was a huge move for him. But it will take time. We have to be patient and see how it pans out.

I hope the appointment of a young, inventive coach who uses the academy will help long term. That's got to be the goal.
Gibson did in 2012 and topped up in 2014 and 2016.
Combined £63m in those 3 conversions.
The £50m in 2012 stopped the club liquidating.

Point is nothing since the £8m in 2016. Yet the debt has racked up to £120m.
He won’t convert now.
The £22.5m gave him opportunity this summer as it was pure profit from 2 player sales. He chose to use it to reduce the loss we would make rather than bring quality in.
 
Lordy there are some very upset people aren't there. My take

It's obvious Wilder flirting with Burnley upset the players and the club.

It looks like Wilder did the same as at Sheff U - get into a fight, ask to be sacked and then sulk until you do get sacked.

Wilder over the summer and into this season has behaved like a spoiled brat. His behaviour to Bola, Dijksteel and some degree Coburn, Forss and Hoppe literally devalued our assets and demotivated his players.

The squad we have is not that bad. A new manager should be able to sort out tactics, motivation and confidence of the players.

The new structure behind the scenes will take years to be fully functional. But we are starting from a better place than Brighton, Brentford etc when they put their structures in place.

Gibson is here until someone else comes in with hundreds of millions of pounds to keep the club afloat. He gets stuff wrong but so does every club owner. Every appointment and player transaction is a gamble. I still don't see who I would rather have.

Let's see who gets appointed as Head Coach and who is brought into help them. And let's see how we look next Saturday. I think we will be surprised at how much of a difference a new team on the bench can make.

I would expect to see much more flow between academy and first team. It's been scandalous how few have been given the slightest chance in recent years. That must drive Gibson nuts.

I'm gutted we've got to wait a week for a game but glad the new coach has that time to prepare his team.
Great post and reflects my feelings. For years we’ve complained as fans about jumping from one approach to another, having no continuity, having to rebuild the team every other year. Finally we have done something about it and people want instant success. It’s going to take time. Fans demand recruitment find hidden gems - but when recruitment buy players who could be those gems, managers won’t play them. Harrison couldn’t get a game for us, Payero playing regularly now he’s left, who’s to say Forss and Hoppe won’t be brilliant for us in future? We don’t know because these experienced managers want to bring in experienced players used to the Championship! Something has to change and it is…

I agree with your points about Wilder. He clearly lost the players, our form fell off a cliff around the Burnley speculation time. I still think he mismanaged Sporar who went from cult hero to struggling to get a game ahead of Connolly! Then into this season. Djiksteel losing his no.2 shirt, Hoppe and Forss not allowed to pick 9/10/11 shirts. Payero shipped out, Bola told he could go. It’s been poor.

We have the foundations of a good team still and just need someone to rebuild their confidence and give them some shape and belief. Midfield needs major surgery but it’s not terminal. My one criticism is that the trust had clearly gone between the club and Wilder, Gibson didn’t want to back him towards the end of the transfer window and so we are left short of what we need. I think we’ll see the new coaches backed in Jan/summer and a couple of wins will get the crowd buzzing again.
 
I think we need a ground zero approach, because sticking plasters every 14 months or so is not doing it. We did it before, when Kenyon came in to give his opinion and we hired Karanka. I'd love to know who's whispering in Gibbo's ears at the moment. The club is moribund at this point and it's beginning to look like another write off of a season, despite the Championship arguably being in it's worse state in recent times - no one is running away with it, and we're still only 8 points off the playoffs despite our wretched form. It's frustrating as hell.

And you look down the potential managers and you think, which of these is going to apply the jolt of electricity that we need, like Robson did, or Karanka. It's a pretty uninspiring bunch of failures and rookies. If Wilder was so intent on going, he should have been binned off at the end of last season; instead he'd been allowed to preside over a terrible start, then ghiven a two week international break before what seems almost inevitable now happened.
 
Warnock made it known that he wasn’t happy with Scott.
Is that quite true, he alluded that he wasn't particularly happy with a setup where he didn't have control, but never came out and said it straight and also he never directly claimed that he had any issues with Scott.

We have appointed a ‘Head of football’whose background is recruitment and it is reasonable to believe he would oversee this activity at the club. He doesn’t seem to have had any positive impact whatsoever in this regard.
It's a long term plan. We are now in the business of signing 18-24 year olds and growing them into better more valuable players. You can't expect that to come to fruition in 12 months.

Since scott arrived we have signed the following on full time contracts...

Caolin Boyd-Munce -he was a cheap squad filler, that could easily make profit, given a run of games.
Riley McGree - has ability, but needs to improve his consistency and impact. That can be learned
Bryant Bilongo - young and talented defender
Matt Clarke - young but experienced at this level
Camil Konteh - young international, still raw, still learning
Marcus Forss - scores goals, but needs to improve his all round game, another young international
Matthew Hoppe - Another young international with potential
Darragh Lenihan - good experienced freebee
Massimo Luongo - squad filler
Liam Roberts - free keeper young enough to improve
Tommy Smith - experienced squad filler

11 players signed in 12 months since he arrived, that's a sizeable recruitment. Of those 7 are under 24, the 4 that aren't were free. If the 11 players 7 are current internationals.

With our model of buy low sell high, and add a bit of experience to guide them, I'm not sure what more we could do. We tried to sign 2 high potential 'marquee' players in Jacob Greaves and Jorgan Strand Larson....but when it didn't happen, we didn't panic buy, we're prepared to pay good fees of 5-10m for exceptional talent. But the stars have to align for that to come to fruition.
 
I agree with your points about Wilder. He clearly lost the players, our form fell off a cliff around the Burnley speculation time. I still think he mismanaged Sporar who went from cult hero to struggling to get a game ahead of Connolly! Then into this season. Djiksteel losing his no.2 shirt, Hoppe and Forss not allowed to pick 9/10/11 shirts. Payero shipped out, Bola told he could go. It’s been poor.
He wanted rid of Fry too and publicly slated him! I’m not convinced selling Nathan Wood for £400k was the best move. The thing between him and Warnock seemed to become a beef with ‘his’ players. Not sure what his problem was with all of our academy players?
 
He wanted rid of Fry too and publicly slated him! I’m not convinced selling Nathan Wood for £400k was the best move. The thing between him and Warnock seemed to become a beef with ‘his’ players. Not sure what his problem was with all of our academy players?
I think CW's refusal to acknowledge any of the academy players (let alone play them) was a massive part of the rift with Gibson and probably part explains Gibson's blanking of CW on his exit (the other perhaps being whatever allegedly went off with CW's agents and Bournemouth etc. etc.). Hopefully the new manager doesn't arrive with an overinflated ego and recognises the value academy players can add. The fact Hackney started against Brum was 100% a royal 2-fingered salute to CW.
 
We are not & never were Wilders club - too many managers think clubs & squads are their toy, they are not - almost all will get the boot / resign within 3-5 years of taking a job.. very few will be a long term appointment & success like only a very very few.

Clubs can't continually be churning over players - & fans need to realise money is not endless, unless you're at the very top of the PL & backed by an ego driven billionaire.

I'm sure the club is trying to get it's recruitment & backroom staff in order & though Wilder looked an excellent choice, he turned out to be as flawed as many of the others that have gone before: too much about him & not about progressing the team, squad & club.
 
We are not & never were Wilders club - too many managers think clubs & squads are their toy, they are not - almost all will get the boot / resign within 3-5 years of taking a job.. very few will be a long term appointment & success like only a very very few.
agreed, except most managers are goen in 1-3 years. In fact I think only 3 of current championship managers have been in post 2 full seasons: Coventry-Mark Robins, Luton-Nathan Jones, Millwall-Gary Rowett.

15 championship clubs have had managerial changers in pre-season or during the season...it's an absolute managers graveyard this league.
 
Brentford are about the only team to have sold good players and successfully replaced them cheaply.
If we are signing mowatt to replace tav then we gonna be a long project.
Not paying the price to watch the mediocre bunch. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we lack energy especially in midfield.
 
Brentford are about the only team to have sold good players and successfully replaced them cheaply.
If we are signing mowatt to replace tav then we gonna be a long project.
Not paying the price to watch the mediocre bunch. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we lack energy especially in midfield.

You just have to look at the **** ups this summer. All eggs in striker baskets that ultimately failed giving us no time. Shipping Payero out on loan then selling Tav and putting all our eggs in a loan with Brentford basket that failed. Signing utter dross instead on loan from a rival (if WBA didn't want Mowatt then why on earth did we??) and then a free transfer panic journeyman who won't kick a ball. Just a perfect example of the amateur hour that is our recruitment team.
 
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