Anyone understand tax & pensions ?

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
I want to take a lump sum next year at age 55 from PPF (Pension protection Fund) BUT under the scheme rules I then also have to take the monthly pension assigned to me. I'll still be working though and therefore the pension is taxable.

Question; Can I divert this monthly pension payment direct into a private pension fund I contribute to in order to avoid being taxed on something I dont need at present ?
 
I only know that I pay my share of the former and probably won’t have enough of the latter to retire when I’d like. Sorry
 
I want to take a lump sum next year at age 55 from PPF (Pension protection Fund) BUT under the scheme rules I then also have to take the monthly pension assigned to me. I'll still be working though and therefore the pension is taxable.

Question; Can I divert this monthly pension payment direct into a private pension fund I contribute to in order to avoid being taxed on something I dont need at present ?
I'd speak to a financial advisor, but if you don't want to take that pension amount (as you're working, and want it back into a pension) then you shouldn't have to pay tax on it, I would expect.
 
Your PPF pension is taxable whether or not you are working since it is classed as income.

You can't pay money taken as income from one pension into another to avoid paying tax.
 
Anyone can invest at least £4k a year in a SIPP. You put in £3,200 and the taxman gives your SIPP £800, effectively £800 back in tax you have paid. You can take from the SIPP later in the your like and it can be pased on tax free to others in your Will.

You might be able to put in more £4k but you need to speak to a professional advisor to advise on your pension position after you have taken your first pension sum.
 
Cant believe you have to take a monthly income ... I transferred my existing work pension to Royal London into a pension Individual Investment Portfolio ... took the tax free lump sum and chose to draw out a monthly release ... the rest stays in the plan . I am 64 .... The monthly income is taxed after personal allowance is used ... really friendly and easy to get the funds if needed for emergencies
 
Your PPF pension is taxable whether or not you are working since it is classed as income.

You can't pay money taken as income from one pension into another to avoid paying tax.
I may have this wrong as I'm not a finance guy but this ticks me off.

We were told to save in to pensions and obtain all the tax relief as its providing for our future. Then come the time we need to use that money that we saved, the government taxes us on it anyway. What's the point of the relief if we just get kicked in the nads at the very time our income drops?
 
Question; Can I divert this monthly pension payment direct into a private pension fund I contribute to in order to avoid being taxed on something I dont need at present ?
As others have said, you’d really need to speak to an IFA before doing anything. There are all sorts of rules about pensions recycling (taking tax free money from a pension and then claiming tax relief on it) that you don’t want to fall foul of.

You definitely can’t pay the monthly pension payments directly into another private pension though, as it’s not counted as relevant earnings (basically what you earn from work). You can only claim tax relief against your relevant earnings, not any pension or other income.

Anyone can invest at least £4k a year in a SIPP. You put in £3,200 and the taxman gives your SIPP £800, effectively £800 back in tax you have paid. You can take from the SIPP later in the your like and it can be pased on tax free to others in your Will.

You might be able to put in more £4k but you need to speak to a professional advisor to advise on your pension position after you have taken your first pension sum.
The principle is right, but it’s £3,600 gross per annum for non-earners. You pay £2,880 and your SIPP provider claims £720 in tax relief from HMRC.
 
I may have this wrong as I'm not a finance guy but this ticks me off.

We were told to save in to pensions and obtain all the tax relief as its providing for our future. Then come the time we need to use that money that we saved, the government taxes us on it anyway. What's the point of the relief if we just get kicked in the nads at the very time our income drops?
The point is that if you save into a pension for, say, forty years it will (at least it should) earn a return on the investment far larger than the tax taken when you retire. Also, you could use a pension to stay below the 40% tax band and so benefit even more. In the age of final salary pensions it was like having your own printing press. Not so much nowadays.
 
Given that your pension is with the PPF you obviously won't be able to transfer the whole pot that can provide the ability to take your tax free cash and leave the rest as it is.

Assuming your income is being taken as an annuity (rather than flexi access drawdown which is unlikely with PPF plans) you will absolutely be able to pay it into a personal pension and get tax relief on your contributions up to a maximum of £40k p.a. or your net relevant earnings (ie your ongoing salary) whichever is lower.
 
The point is that if you save into a pension for, say, forty years it will (at least it should) earn a return on the investment far larger than the tax taken when you retire. Also, you could use a pension to stay below the 40% tax band and so benefit even more. In the age of final salary pensions it was like having your own printing press. Not so much nowadays.
Yeah, I have done salary sacrifice for various things to keep me under the 40% limit, including adding more to my pension. In 20 odd years when I retire, I'll be wondering if it was worth it.
 
Given that your pension is with the PPF you obviously won't be able to transfer the whole pot that can provide the ability to take your tax free cash and leave the rest as it is.

Assuming your income is being taken as an annuity (rather than flexi access drawdown which is unlikely with PPF plans) you will absolutely be able to pay it into a personal pension and get tax relief on your contributions up to a maximum of £40k p.a. or your net relevant earnings (ie your ongoing salary) whichever is lower.
Thanks Teesste - the key point here is this is from the PPF and been sat there (my funds previously paid in) for 14 plus years...dormant with added annual inflation...hope you are correct but will seek out an IFA
 
Assuming your income is being taken as an annuity (rather than flexi access drawdown which is unlikely with PPF plans) you will absolutely be able to pay it into a personal pension and get tax relief on your contributions up to a maximum of £40k p.a. or your net relevant earnings (ie your ongoing salary) whichever is lower.
This is why you shouldn’t seek financial advice from a football message board.

Whilst that’s an accurate description of the general position, if someone takes a tax free lump sum from a pension and then suddenly increases their normal pension contributions, HMRC might think (perhaps justifiably) that the lump sum (which has already attracted tax relief) is being used to fund additional tax relief, i.e. pensions recycling. They have all sorts of rules against it and people need to get proper financial advice in advance if they don’t want to end up with a massive tax bill.
 
ExFL Im 62 this October & will take my pension in full that will mature, im certainly going to get financial advice, too much of a minefield
 
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Cant believe you have to take a monthly income ... I transferred my existing work pension to Royal London into a pension Individual Investment Portfolio ... took the tax free lump sum and chose to draw out a monthly release ... the rest stays in the plan . I am 64 .... The monthly income is taxed after personal allowance is used ... really friendly and easy to get the funds if needed for emergencies
I can second this. My wife moved her money from a percentage of final scheme to a draw down scheme with Royal London in 2017. Then started drawing money down ad hoc when she reached 55.

She had to use a financial advisor as part of the transfer process. As this was mandated by the UK government. After discussions we took his advice and went for a Royal London scheme of type Moderately Cautious / Balanced / Moderately Adventurous. We paid for his assistance with the transfer. Then kept him on for little while afterwards. After that we took over managing it without him.

As I am a nerd I track progress of the scheme on a twice monthly basis. Plus I keep an eye of the changes that Royal London make to to various component parts of the scheme. Based on their knowledge of the markets.

Touch wood, so far the scheme has exceeded it's target in every year but one. Since we transferred the funds in 2017. So we are very happy with Royal London.
 
You should contact Pension Wise. It is a government funded organisation that provides free impartial pension advice:


I used them and they were really helpful.
Forgot to mention in the other post that we also used advice from Pension Wise. As well as having to have a financial advisor involved.
 
I may have this wrong as I'm not a finance guy but this ticks me off.

We were told to save in to pensions and obtain all the tax relief as its providing for our future. Then come the time we need to use that money that we saved, the government taxes us on it anyway. What's the point of the relief if we just get kicked in the nads at the very time our income drops?
I think the idea is it's a semi forced way of saving, and opens the door to compound interest, which most are oblivious too.

Then there's the idea that when you are younger and earning 30-60k or whatever, you're in a higher tax bracket (or have more taxable income) and still paying for your house, kids, car or whatever. When you're older and taking a pension you should be able to get away with spending less, so have less, income so less tax/ lower tax bands etc.

100k into a pension goes in without paying any tax on that, and if you had it in your wages you might be getting taxed 30% on that, so would end up with 70k.

That 100k should become 150k or whatever in a pension, and then if you say took 10k a year for 15 years then you would pay no tax on it, as it would be in the tax free allowance. Even if you took 21.5k for 7 years, you're only paying 20% tax on maybe 70k of that, so 14k tax total. You're getting 135k out roughly, pretty much double what you would have otherwise got.

The problem is of course, that younger people are often skint, and house prices now are a much higher multiple v wages, so they can't afford to save in a pension, so they get hammered on the house, and then hammered as they can't afford the best way to save.
 
This is why you shouldn’t seek financial advice from a football message board.

Whilst that’s an accurate description of the general position, if someone takes a tax free lump sum from a pension and then suddenly increases their normal pension contributions, HMRC might think (perhaps justifiably) that the lump sum (which has already attracted tax relief) is being used to fund additional tax relief, i.e. pensions recycling. They have all sorts of rules against it and people need to get proper financial advice in advance if they don’t want to end up with a massive tax bill.
As far as recycling rules go, assuming the annual increase in contributions is less than 30% of his tax free cash then HMRC won't be interested. (to be fair this should have been mentioned for clarity in my earlier post)
 
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As others have said, you’d really need to speak to an IFA before doing anything. There are all sorts of rules about pensions recycling (taking tax free money from a pension and then claiming tax relief on it) that you don’t want to fall foul of.

You definitely can’t pay the monthly pension payments directly into another private pension though, as it’s not counted as relevant earnings (basically what you earn from work). You can only claim tax relief against your relevant earnings, not any pension or other income.
You clearly know more about this than me but if he's being taxed as it comes out, puts it in another and then it gets taxed coming out again, that seems a bit unfair?

Can he not just port that over from one pension to another, without ever seeing it? Or is that "just the way it is", with that particular pension, and you're getting it out and taxed on it at 55 whether you like it or not?

Could he salary sacrifice his wages into a pension, to the same amount his pension is paying out?
 
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