Are we turning the Ukrainian people into targets?

coluka said:
No but the government are turning the UK into target number 1. A missile on the UK does not directly affect mainland Europe or USA but would be a strategic first strike warning to NATO
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Why would you break your own possessions? The Russians have bought and paid for our government. Outside of Belarus we are probably the last place they would attack.
 
SmallTown said:
Why would you break your own possessions? The Russians have bought and paid for our government. Outside of Belarus we are probably the last place they would attack.
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They are all being given time to remove or sell their assets, transfer monies out etc, once done, we then become an unimportant piece of land that could be used as a target to send a message to mainland Europe and America or a base to attempt to invade and open a second front. The nuclear deterrent is the main basis for our protection. If that ceases to be a deterrent, because one ageing mans mad dream to go down in world history is worth a gamble, then all bets are off.
 
Don't be so sure that the Ukraine will fall. Russia might be able to overrun the cities, but it is more than likely that there will be a continued resistance from the Ukrainian forces. A permanent state of guerilla warfare could well become the norm.
Sanctions will have two effects, one being the stifling of Russia's ability to fund an occupation of Ukraine and the other being to change the support for Putin in Russia.
Ukraine will suffer terrible pain either way, but they have almost unanimously chosen to reject Putin so it is imperative that we continue to arm them and to sanction Russia to the maximum.
Read the latest post about the armoured column on the invasion thread and you'll see that a lot of military personnel are very dubious about the military capabilities of the Russian army and a well supplied Ukrainian force could well force them back.
 
Putin needs to at least be able to use the pretext of an attack being reasonable for defensive reasons. He can paint Ukraine as being defensive (NATO/EU are dangerous to Russia, Neo Nazis are terrorising Russians in Ukraine, Ukraine are killing people in the Donbass, etc, etc) he can't with Ireland. He needs to choose somewhere which he can paint as a threat but which also isn't going to cause a massive retaliatory attack.

Sweden/Finland joining NATO, Georgia wanting EU membership are probably the two he'd point to at the moment. Even then it would need to be at a stage in the war where it seems unwinnable as he would only do it in the hope that he would scare the west into backing down.
 
coluka said:
They are all being given time to remove or sell their assets, transfer monies out etc, once done, we then become an unimportant piece of land that could be used as a target to send a message to mainland Europe and America or a base to attempt to invade and open a second front. The nuclear deterrent is the main basis for our protection. If that ceases to be a deterrent, because one ageing mans mad dream to go down in world history is worth a gamble, then all bets are off.
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This is most evident with Abramovich. I find it pretty repulsive how he is openly flogging off his assets in the UK, presumably to evade sanctions, in front of the Government and no one is doing anything about it.

It is a prime example of Tory hypocrisy when it comes to Russia.

And balls to Chelsea. They took the Russian shilling, if sanctions on Abramovich damage the club so be it. There are bigger things to worry about that football clubs.
 
dooderooni said:
Don't be so sure that the Ukraine will fall. Russia might be able to overrun the cities, but it is more than likely that there will be a continued resistance from the Ukrainian forces. A permanent state of guerilla warfare could well become the norm.
Sanctions will have two effects, one being the stifling of Russia's ability to fund an occupation of Ukraine and the other being to change the support for Putin in Russia.
Ukraine will suffer terrible pain either way, but they have almost unanimously chosen to reject Putin so it is imperative that we continue to arm them and to sanction Russia to the maximum.
Read the latest post about the armoured column on the invasion thread and you'll see that a lot of military personnel are very dubious about the military capabilities of the Russian army and a well supplied Ukrainian force could well force them back.
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It won’t fall but sadly it will be reduced to rubble, why else do you think they are encircling the city.

Classic Russian no make that soviet tactic to take the city by siege threaten the ruler warn all those in the city to leave and if not by a certain deadline then destroy it and all inside.
 
rbmfc1985 said:
He's still using it and will still use it. It doesn't matter if noone believes it, he still needs to hide behind it.
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He’s def still using it within Russia to his people.

Russian media urging people draw a z on their clothes to show solidarity with their troops as well.

CB70A5CA-8FE7-45C9-80A3-42C88BD424D5.jpgECABFB28-9127-4C95-B027-53469BC3D682.jpgBBC2B68C-F57A-4C01-8CBC-433DFDD9B826.jpgAnd this heart breaking
2964475E-B62E-428F-9A61-ADF164F4FEAD.jpg
 
rbmfc1985 said:
Putin needs to at least be able to use the pretext of an attack being reasonable for defensive reasons. He can paint Ukraine as being defensive (NATO/EU are dangerous to Russia, Neo Nazis are terrorising Russians in Ukraine, Ukraine are killing people in the Donbass, etc, etc) he can't with Ireland. He needs to choose somewhere which he can paint as a threat but which also isn't going to cause a massive retaliatory attack.

Sweden/Finland joining NATO, Georgia wanting EU membership are probably the two he'd point to at the moment. Even then it would need to be at a stage in the war where it seems unwinnable as he would only do it in the hope that he would scare the west into backing down.
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Finland and Sweden are potential targets as they are seemingly considering the NATO option and Putin has already openly warned Finland against it and has recently used his air force to violate Swedish air space in order to test their responses. The man is simply not rational and therefore hard to second guess.
 
newyddion said:
I think a more interesting idea is the possibility of Russia being ‘cancelled’ ie any product, service and communication is pulled from them. Their identity taken away as far as Russian words that are used and even the word ‘Russia’ being used to describe the country.

Putin creating such a stink that no one associated with Russia is accepted or allowed to participate in the worldwide community. Athletes, musicians, businessmen all shunned. Given the worldwide cold shoulder.
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Pariah state status. It's well on the way and ultimately its going to be enormously damaging for the russian people. The MOEX hasn't been open for 4 days now, pensions and savings must be plummeting in value, banks and investment must be at risk.

The value of the Rouble plummeting and potential hyper inflation in 3-6 months is going to do more damage than any bomb
 
BoroMart said:
Pariah state status. It's well on the way and ultimately its going to be enormously damaging for the russian people. The MOEX hasn't been open for 4 days now, pensions and savings must be plummeting in value, banks and investment must be at risk.

The value of the Rouble plummeting and potential hyper inflation in 3-6 months is going to do more damage than any bomb
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You do have to wonder if Putin factored that in against how reliant we are on their gas and oil. I suppose we'll know later on this year if cars become too expensive to run and homes too expensive to heat.

It's amazing how politicians can U-turn when it benefits them. I can imagine that when we are facing average every bills of £3500 a year and petrol is £2 a litre that some sanctions might be eased despite what is going on in Ukraine.
 
What he has done as well with this push to wear the Z in public by Russians esp school kids.

is immediately show who the dissidents are as well. As now anyone not wearing a Z will be viewed with suspicion.

That’s a soviet tactic as well

Terrifying
 
Am I daft for thinking that this might be another conflict where we have no idea what our plan or end game is?


you do know who our PM is , don't you !!!!!
 
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