Randy
Well-known member
Nail. On. The. Head.And still.....you comply
All the ranting and raving at this pond life government is empty.
Nail. On. The. Head.And still.....you comply
I know how much you were against lockdowns etc, but honestly what do you think would have happened to this country if we had no restrictions last year?And your pro lockdown has killed and will kill just as many people as covid will. Nice try on the anti lockdown guilt trip though I'll give you that.
Except he won't.PMQ tomorrow - who's bringing the popcorn?
Starmer had better go for Johnson with all guns blazing. 67m people expect him to tear Johnson to pieces. It's make or break time for him too. He has to make an irreversible impact.
Exactly sometimes even the most corrupt government does the right thing, usually too late and for the wrong reasons (wealth not health)I know how much you were against lockdowns etc, but honestly what do you think would have happened to this country if we had no restrictions last year?
Probably exactly the same that is happening now.I know how much you were against lockdowns etc, but honestly what do you think would have happened to this country if we had no restrictions last year?
they're not being denied a childhood, they were temporarily kept at home to keep them safe, their parents safe and their grandparents safe.denying children a childhood is worse, in my opinion,
OK, lets look at that holisticaly. Would we not have been better shutting down every where else earlier, harder and for less time? You know like they did in europe? This is Randy's point. Keep listening to these fuckwits who make the wrong decisions at the wrong times, if you want, it's not really for me. I have worn a mask for months, because I am not stupid. I have avoided the pub for months, because I am not stupid. I will continue to do the right things for me and my family, as I hope we would all do.Public schools should not have remained open, that does not mean shutting state schools was wrong. (They weren't fully closed).
You're suggesting it was possible for schools to remain fully open at that time, it just wasn't for many many reasons that you're not looking at.
Millions of children would have not been able to attend for various reasons, parents isolating or unable to use support networks they rely on to take/pick up children in school etc.
More fundamentally teachers and support staff would not have been able to remain in sufficient numbers to safely operate a fully open school, it would have been chaos with some shut, some open or half open with the schools left to fend for themselves.
I also have children, and my son did not want to go because he feared passing the virus to me as I was shielding. There are two sides to this coin and the effect on children are not universal.
Thats awful BoroMart, it's not the entire picture though. I will say I, respectfully disagree, from my own experriences.they're not being denied a childhood, they were temporarily kept at home to keep them safe, their parents safe and their grandparents safe.
You want to see what denying a childhood is? I can tell you from first hand experience, watching a 7 and 9 year old bury their mother, that messes up with kids far more than 6 months schooling over zoom, including a summer holiday anyway. Continuing to send kids into school when some had vulnerable parents was cruel. More kids will have gone through what my kids went through
Probably exactly the same that is happening now.
For example France have required vaccine passports to be shown to get into nightclubs for the past few months. Guess what the French have done now? Shut nightclubs in France for a minimum of 4 weeks because nightclubs are apparently to blame for cases there. Or how about the mandatory mask mandates in Germany? Once held up as a shining example on how to battle the pandemic, now with some of the highest case rates in Europe. Hell South Korea was once doing well but the inevitable was only delayed and they too are struggling with case rates.
Those who are pro lockdown refuse to recognise or see the damage they have done to people's health, people's livelihoods and people's education as yes lockdowns have directly caused preventable deaths. To say lockdowns haven't caused preventable deaths is quite frankly a lie.
Randy's point is, and excuse me if I have this wrong Randy, we would have had the same number of deaths from covid, without lockdowns. It would have happened quickerr, and more might have died through lack of care because our NHS has been stripped to the bone through privitization.I’m not denying that lockdown may have caused preventable deaths, but this in no way would be higher than the amount saved by restrictions. It’s not exactly a scenario that will ever have a perfect solution
Just imagine for a second the impact of not putting any restrictions in place last year and how many deaths this would have caused, even non Covid related
What was the alternative to lockdown that wouldn’t cause thousands of deaths?
If those waves all happen quicker it wouldn’t take much for it to become very catastrophic quite quickly, and personally I think that causes far more disputation on every aspect of our lives than a lockdown wouldRandy's point is, and excuse me if I have this wrong Randy, we would have had the same number of deaths from covid, without lockdowns. It would have happened quickerr, and more might have died through lack of care because our NHS has been stripped to the bone through privitization.
We just moved waves, we never prevented them.
Now I don't know if this is true or not, and I, generally, agree with lockdowns. What I don't agee with is the when and why of their implementation.
We have to agree that we all want the least number of deaths, with the least amount of damage to the most people. We just don't necessarily agree with the right way to do it. What we should all agree on is Johnson ****ed this up royally.
There is no 'may' about it. Ultimately lockdowns will be attributed to just as many deaths as the virus has when we look back in years to come.I’m not denying that lockdown may have caused preventable deaths, but this in no way would be higher than the amount saved by restrictions. It’s not exactly a scenario that will ever have a perfect solution
Just imagine for a second the impact of not putting any restrictions in place last year and how many deaths this would have caused, even non Covid related
What was the alternative to lockdown that wouldn’t cause thousands of deaths?
It’s blatant, isn’t it? I truly hope this is another phone-hacking/expenses scale scandal. It needs to be.No mention of this story on front page of tomorrow's Sun or Telegraph. The Sun's deputy editor James Slack worked in No. 10 as director of communications at the time the Christmas party that wasn't a christmas party took place, no doubt other journos were there too......
You may be right on the disruption point, but I don't personally agree, but I don't know. It is all supposition.If those waves all happen quicker it wouldn’t take much for it to become very catastrophic quite quickly, and personally I think that causes far more disputation on every aspect of our lives than a lockdown would
Pushing back waves to when people had the opportunity to be vaccinated must have also saved thousands of lives though
Completely agree on the final point, it really didn’t need to be managed like this
He did last week Randy. But he was ridiculed and criticised by the 'Anyone but Starmer' brigade on here for 'wasting' 2 of the 6 questions he's allowed on a meaningless Christmas party from a year ago.Except he won't.
Don't get me wrong I hope he goes for it but I don't think he'll go for the jugular which is what he should do.He did last week Randy. But he was ridiculed and criticised by the 'Anyone but Starmer' brigade on here for 'wasting' 2 of the 6 questions he's allowed on a meaningless Christmas party from a year ago.
Strangely enough those critics are absent from this thread.