India Covid Situation - Big Improvement

Twitter are always "shadow banning" folks, there are websites out there now that can tell you if you've been the victim of it.
 
smogontherhine said:
1. It looks like they've lifted the ban on twitter since my post... yesterday no posts after 23rd May were appearing, suddenly today the missing ones have all appeared. DarkHorse podcast suggests the same
2. A large scale trial is not going to happen, we've already discussed this, no-one is going to fund this, and no-one should be doing a double-blind trial with a placebo when the active drug has been proven to work, it's unethical
3. I simply do not trust the WHO's motives, you might. As the 5th largest donor to the WHO, GAVI Alliance clearly has only one motive, it's in its name
4. Anywhere you look in the world that has used ivermectin as part of a holistic covid program has had success
5. Not pushing this for antivaxxers at all, or even the UK - in the developing world there will be hundreds of millions of people that are months if not years away from a vaccine, I can't for the life of me understand why the WHO is against recommending ivermectin for them, it is a no-brainer and will save lives and be globally beneficial

The truth will out.

And a question... what do you think the motives are for Dr. Kory et al ? He's a 30 year veteran ICU doctor, he's interested in saving lives.
[/QUOTE
The vaccine fan boys here aren’t interested in Ivermectin. It’s been around years and is relatively cheap so no money in it for big pharma, especially when it wouldn’t need to be pumped into every man an his dog - meanwhile the vaccine w@nkathon continues 👀




🐔
Click to expand...
 
smogontherhine said:
1. It looks like they've lifted the ban on twitter since my post... yesterday no posts after 23rd May were appearing, suddenly today the missing ones have all appeared. DarkHorse podcast suggests the same
2. A large scale trial is not going to happen, we've already discussed this, no-one is going to fund this, and no-one should be doing a double-blind trial with a placebo when the active drug has been proven to work, it's unethical
3. I simply do not trust the WHO's motives, you might. As the 5th largest donor to the WHO, GAVI Alliance clearly has only one motive, it's in its name
4. Anywhere you look in the world that has used ivermectin as part of a holistic covid program has had success
5. Not pushing this for antivaxxers at all, or even the UK - in the developing world there will be hundreds of millions of people that are months if not years away from a vaccine, I can't for the life of me understand why the WHO is against recommending ivermectin for them, it is a no-brainer and will save lives and be globally beneficial

The truth will out.

And a question... what do you think the motives are for Dr. Kory et al ? He's a 30 year veteran ICU doctor, he's interested in saving lives.
Click to expand...
1. I'll take your word for it on that
2. It's not proven to work, to a point where it has a point over the alternatives. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying the data is poor, which is what the WHO, EMA and USMA are saying too. Promoting an unproven "wonder drug", which isn't the first, over vaccines is not only unethical, it's actually going to get people killed and slow the point at which we get to herd immunity and can return back to a better economy. By peddling alternatives with no proof you're just putting doubt into peoples minds who do not and will not ever understand, and all this does is lengthen the time of the lockdowns,
3. Why don't you? What have they done for you to think they're bad, you must have loads of evidence? There are millions of people alive who would not be here if it wasn't for the WHO (and its private donors, who also have a history of doing good)
GAVI actually explain the IVM situation quite well, and it makes perfect sense https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ivermectin-why-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-use
4. No, they haven't, the places which have had the most success have prevented/ limited it through control measures, reduced it through lockdowns, and now will come out of it with vaccines. There's a common theme that these things have been argued against (wrongly) by the same people that promote IVM, they think they're being clever, but they're not skilled enough to even have an opinion on it (like us), so we should listen to the experts (and for every one doctors for IVM there are thousands of doctors saying I can't see a benefit or saying I'll trust the WHO, EMA, USMA etc).
5. They don't need to be years away, this is where the WHO and private funding can help too if you let it, instead of undermining it. They (3rd world countries) don't have a massive country stockpile of IVM you know, it would need to be made, moved and administered, and seemingly repeatedly and in large quantities, for a long time. A lot of the countries that will wait for the longest for vaccines have much, much, much bigger problems than covid.

So, seeing as you're not pushing it for anti-vaxers, and the UK, that means you would recommend that every adult gets the vaccine in the UK, yes? Obviously, you agree that the current vaccines proposed to each age group are such low risk and a massive proven collective benefit?
If you could give a million vaccines or a million courses of IVM to a third world country, what would you give? How many years IVM will they need?

The WHO, Covid and IVM situation is not a conspiracy, the conspiracies have become the conspiracy. There are loads of buyers of conspiracies, and these buyers tend to buy more than one, they think they're open-minded but they're more of a closed shop, down the rabbit hole. There are a few people who will take to promoting them or mentioning conspiracies, feeding off people to line their own pockets and make a name for themselves, it's massive business. Most of these small studies from SA are from people who have a financial interest in IVM based treatments, most people making youtube videos get more money with more hits, and controversial topics cause a feedback loop for the conspiracy lot. A video saying "get your vaccine, they work" isn't exactly going to get many hits is it, as a massive majority know they work (and very well), and don't need to go down the rabbit hole to realise it.

IVM is not free to make, and the companies that do make it will want to make money, and so will the transport companies, and the people that give it to patients also need to be paid, it may work out cheaper to make, but that's not the full costs (it's probably about 5% of the delivered cost).

The truth is already out, conspiracy guys just move on from one conspiracy to the next

All of the crap below has been peddled by the conspiracy/ "open minded" lot :rolleyes::

Covid isn't real, Hydroxychloroquine is the saviour, mocking the 400k deaths model (which was based on doing nothing), Yeadon "no aysmtomatic transmission" (and many others) is the messiah, Henegan "no second wave" is the messiah, the IFR is 0.001%, the IFR is 0.2%, Tegnell is the messiah, Lockdowns don't help, Vaccines don't help, masks don't help, PCR doesn't work, Kary Mullis, LFD have loads of false positives, social distancing doesn't help, Bill Gates, nanobots, Magnetism, WHO is bad etc etc :rolleyes:

The people peddling the above get it wrong, over and over, yet now they think they've nailed it with IVM? I doubt it, but even a broken clock is wrong twice a day. A time will come when one thing will be right, but it will be incomparable to the additional damage caused if we believed the previous crap.
 
Andy_W said:
1. I'll take your word for it on that
2. It's not proven to work, to a point where it has a point over the alternatives. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying the data is poor, which is what the WHO, EMA and USMA are saying too. Promoting an unproven "wonder drug", which isn't the first, over vaccines is not only unethical, it's actually going to get people killed and slow the point at which we get to herd immunity and can return back to a better economy. By peddling alternatives with no proof you're just putting doubt into peoples minds who do not and will not ever understand, and all this does is lengthen the time of the lockdowns,
3. Why don't you? What have they done for you to think they're bad, you must have loads of evidence? There are millions of people alive who would not be here if it wasn't for the WHO (and its private donors, who also have a history of doing good)
GAVI actually explain the IVM situation quite well, and it makes perfect sense https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ivermectin-why-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-use
4. No, they haven't, the places which have had the most success have prevented/ limited it through control measures, reduced it through lockdowns, and now will come out of it with vaccines. There's a common theme that these things have been argued against (wrongly) by the same people that promote IVM, they think they're being clever, but they're not skilled enough to even have an opinion on it (like us), so we should listen to the experts (and for every one doctors for IVM there are thousands of doctors saying I can't see a benefit or saying I'll trust the WHO, EMA, USMA etc).
5. They don't need to be years away, this is where the WHO and private funding can help too if you let it, instead of undermining it. They (3rd world countries) don't have a massive country stockpile of IVM you know, it would need to be made, moved and administered, and seemingly repeatedly and in large quantities, for a long time. A lot of the countries that will wait for the longest for vaccines have much, much, much bigger problems than covid.

So, seeing as you're not pushing it for anti-vaxers, and the UK, that means you would recommend that every adult gets the vaccine in the UK, yes? Obviously, you agree that the current vaccines proposed to each age group are such low risk and a massive proven collective benefit?
If you could give a million vaccines or a million courses of IVM to a third world country, what would you give? How many years IVM will they need?

The WHO, Covid and IVM situation is not a conspiracy, the conspiracies have become the conspiracy. There are loads of buyers of conspiracies, and these buyers tend to buy more than one, they think they're open-minded but they're more of a closed shop, down the rabbit hole. There are a few people who will take to promoting them or mentioning conspiracies, feeding off people to line their own pockets and make a name for themselves, it's massive business. Most of these small studies from SA are from people who have a financial interest in IVM based treatments, most people making youtube videos get more money with more hits, and controversial topics cause a feedback loop for the conspiracy lot. A video saying "get your vaccine, they work" isn't exactly going to get many hits is it, as a massive majority know they work (and very well), and don't need to go down the rabbit hole to realise it.

IVM is not free to make, and the companies that do make it will want to make money, and so will the transport companies, and the people that give it to patients also need to be paid, it may work out cheaper to make, but that's not the full costs (it's probably about 5% of the delivered cost).

The truth is already out, conspiracy guys just move on from one conspiracy to the next

All of the crap below has been peddled by the conspiracy/ "open minded" lot :rolleyes::

Covid isn't real, Hydroxychloroquine is the saviour, mocking the 400k deaths model (which was based on doing nothing), Yeadon "no aysmtomatic transmission" (and many others) is the messiah, Henegan "no second wave" is the messiah, the IFR is 0.001%, the IFR is 0.2%, Tegnell is the messiah, Lockdowns don't help, Vaccines don't help, masks don't help, PCR doesn't work, Kary Mullis, LFD have loads of false positives, social distancing doesn't help, Bill Gates, nanobots, Magnetism, WHO is bad etc etc :rolleyes:

The people peddling the above get it wrong, over and over, yet now they think they've nailed it with IVM? I doubt it, but even a broken clock is wrong twice a day. A time will come when one thing will be right, but it will be incomparable to the additional damage caused if we believed the previous crap.
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I agree will all of that . . . except a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
homersapien said:
Looks as though India may be scaling back the use of Ivermactin.

www.indiatoday.in

DGHS drops Ivermectin, Doxycycline from Covid-19 treatment; ICMR rules unchanged

The revised guidelines have also dropped drugs such as hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, doxycycline, zinc and multivitamins, that were earlier prescribed by doctors to treat asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic Covid-19 patients.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
Click to expand...
Just a continuation of the power struggle that seems to have been going on between umpteen Indian agencies, the national governments and state governments.... will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
Andy_W said:
1. I'll take your word for it on that
2. It's not proven to work, to a point where it has a point over the alternatives. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying the data is poor, which is what the WHO, EMA and USMA are saying too. Promoting an unproven "wonder drug", which isn't the first, over vaccines is not only unethical, it's actually going to get people killed and slow the point at which we get to herd immunity and can return back to a better economy. By peddling alternatives with no proof you're just putting doubt into peoples minds who do not and will not ever understand, and all this does is lengthen the time of the lockdowns,
3. Why don't you? What have they done for you to think they're bad, you must have loads of evidence? There are millions of people alive who would not be here if it wasn't for the WHO (and its private donors, who also have a history of doing good)
GAVI actually explain the IVM situation quite well, and it makes perfect sense https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ivermectin-why-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-use
4. No, they haven't, the places which have had the most success have prevented/ limited it through control measures, reduced it through lockdowns, and now will come out of it with vaccines. There's a common theme that these things have been argued against (wrongly) by the same people that promote IVM, they think they're being clever, but they're not skilled enough to even have an opinion on it (like us), so we should listen to the experts (and for every one doctors for IVM there are thousands of doctors saying I can't see a benefit or saying I'll trust the WHO, EMA, USMA etc).
5. They don't need to be years away, this is where the WHO and private funding can help too if you let it, instead of undermining it. They (3rd world countries) don't have a massive country stockpile of IVM you know, it would need to be made, moved and administered, and seemingly repeatedly and in large quantities, for a long time. A lot of the countries that will wait for the longest for vaccines have much, much, much bigger problems than covid.

So, seeing as you're not pushing it for anti-vaxers, and the UK, that means you would recommend that every adult gets the vaccine in the UK, yes? Obviously, you agree that the current vaccines proposed to each age group are such low risk and a massive proven collective benefit?
If you could give a million vaccines or a million courses of IVM to a third world country, what would you give? How many years IVM will they need?

The WHO, Covid and IVM situation is not a conspiracy, the conspiracies have become the conspiracy. There are loads of buyers of conspiracies, and these buyers tend to buy more than one, they think they're open-minded but they're more of a closed shop, down the rabbit hole. There are a few people who will take to promoting them or mentioning conspiracies, feeding off people to line their own pockets and make a name for themselves, it's massive business. Most of these small studies from SA are from people who have a financial interest in IVM based treatments, most people making youtube videos get more money with more hits, and controversial topics cause a feedback loop for the conspiracy lot. A video saying "get your vaccine, they work" isn't exactly going to get many hits is it, as a massive majority know they work (and very well), and don't need to go down the rabbit hole to realise it.

IVM is not free to make, and the companies that do make it will want to make money, and so will the transport companies, and the people that give it to patients also need to be paid, it may work out cheaper to make, but that's not the full costs (it's probably about 5% of the delivered cost).

The truth is already out, conspiracy guys just move on from one conspiracy to the next

All of the crap below has been peddled by the conspiracy/ "open minded" lot :rolleyes::

Covid isn't real, Hydroxychloroquine is the saviour, mocking the 400k deaths model (which was based on doing nothing), Yeadon "no aysmtomatic transmission" (and many others) is the messiah, Henegan "no second wave" is the messiah, the IFR is 0.001%, the IFR is 0.2%, Tegnell is the messiah, Lockdowns don't help, Vaccines don't help, masks don't help, PCR doesn't work, Kary Mullis, LFD have loads of false positives, social distancing doesn't help, Bill Gates, nanobots, Magnetism, WHO is bad etc etc :rolleyes:

The people peddling the above get it wrong, over and over, yet now they think they've nailed it with IVM? I doubt it, but even a broken clock is wrong twice a day. A time will come when one thing will be right, but it will be incomparable to the additional damage caused if we believed the previous crap.
Click to expand...
I think we'll agree to disagree and meet again when the truth does out and we'll see which one of us is really "down the rabbit hole".
 
smogontherhine said:
I think we'll agree to disagree and meet again when the truth does out and we'll see which one of us is really "down the rabbit hole".
Click to expand...
You didn't answer my questions, can you answer them, please? I'll list them again:
So, seeing as you're not pushing it for anti-vaxers, and the UK, that means you would recommend that every adult gets the vaccine in the UK, yes?
Obviously, you agree that the current vaccines proposed to each age group are such low risk and a massive proven collective benefit?
If you could give a million vaccines or a million courses of IVM to a third world country, what would you give?
How many years IVM will they need?

Happy to agree to disagree, albeit agreeing to disagree doesn't mean there's a 50/50 chance either of us are down the rabbit hole. Even more so seeing as I've never claimed any of the b***ks below, not saying you have either but plenty on here have.

Covid isn't real, Hydroxychloroquine is the saviour, mocking the 400k deaths model (which was based on doing nothing), Yeadon "no asymptomatic transmission" (and many other howlers) is the messiah, Henegan "no second wave" is the messiah, the IFR is 0.001%, the IFR is 0.2%, Tegnell is the messiah, Lockdowns don't help, Vaccines don't help, masks don't help, PCR doesn't work, Kary Mullis, LFD have loads of false positives, social distancing doesn't help, Bill Gates, nanobots, Magnetism, WHO is bad etc etc :rolleyes:

I'm nowhere near the rabbit hole, and will never be in it, as I'll pretty much always back the consensus of science and assume that the medical systems we fund, are there to assist us, not kill us.
The rabbit hole is always the counter to generally accepted science, just like the earth is spherical (roughly), planes did hit the twin towers, 5G doesn't control the mind, Trump did get less votes etc.
I, following the consensus of experts, won't get everything right, but we're on >100% success rate denying that list of Covid disinformation above.

You will never admit the truth, you will probably just move onto something else. The WHO are not bad, nor are the people who fund them, neither is the EMA or the USMA. The NHS isn't lying to us. Bill Gates is certainly not causing more harm than his funding is saving (he's probably saved millions, out of his own pocket) and Ivermectin is at the end of a long line of things that have either been completely disproven with ease, or have absolutely zero going for them (compared to the proven, scientifically-backed, large scale tested, alternatives).

Like I keep saying, I can't even be wrong on Ivermectin as I'm not against it, but it's not recommended for use, without a large scale trail, which is fair enough.
What is recommended for use is the long list of approved drugs and treatments, and of course vaccines.
 
In response to your questions.... I'm reflecting having watched this....

The guy is a well respected virologist who has worked for the Gates Foundation, several vaccine companies, GAVI and the WHO so deserves to be listened to.
 
smogontherhine said:
In response to your questions.... I'm reflecting having watched this....

The guy is a well respected virologist who has worked for the Gates Foundation, several vaccine companies, GAVI and the WHO so deserves to be listened to.
Click to expand...
I'll await your answer, seeing as the video you posted has no bearing on the questions I asked, as no country is going down his preferred guaranteed mass death route, so it's not an option you can try.

I skimmed through that, after the first 10 minutes didn't go anywhere (might get time to watch it again later), and I don't have the time for all of it (might get time to watch it again later). Seems like he wants herd immunity without vaccines (which would have guaranteed deaths 3-5x more than we had/ have already), yet thinks that route won't create variants? Yet all the variants we have now largely came from countries that were largely unvaccinated, and nowhere near herd immunity in any kind of way.
If we have vaccines we can adapt them to the variants which will come, he should know this, and certainly does.
If we don't have vaccines, we can't adapt them to the variant that come, as we have no building block/ knowledge, when if they just keep getting worse and worse and natural covid immunity doesn't prevent later variants?

This guy doesn't seem completely nuts, far from it and has very clear vaccine knowledge (similar ot his peers who are all for the vaccines) but he doesn't seem to have any grasp on this from a modelling point of view, or isn't accepting that the vaccines already work exceptionally well (after 2 doses) and that these vaccines will get adapted and made better. The vast majority say this can be controlled with vaccines and there may be some immunity escape but it's nothing like the "do nothing" scenario, where there will also be immunity escape, except 3-5x more natural cases (and deaths), so more opportunity for variants.

I bet he's gutted to not be employed by one of the vaccine companies, wonder why he left?

This guy has had his theories debunked before mind, and his arguments are nullified when countries get herd immunity through a mix of vaccination and by having covid, which Isreal have pretty much done already, and we're not far off. Afte summer/ the exit waves I think this will be a thing of the past for the developed world, yet will take a couple of years longer for third world.

www.mcgill.ca

The Doomsday Prophecy of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a Belgian virus expert, has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.A Belgian virus expert has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.
www.mcgill.ca

Why are all these Dr's not actual medical doctors? This one's a Vet (don't get me wrong mind, it's a high calibre trade).
 
Andy_W said:
I'll await your answer, seeing as the video you posted has no bearing on the questions I asked, as no country is going down his preferred guaranteed mass death route, so it's not an option you can try.

I skimmed through that, after the first 10 minutes didn't go anywhere (might get time to watch it again later), and I don't have the time for all of it (might get time to watch it again later). Seems like he wants herd immunity without vaccines (which would have guaranteed deaths 3-5x more than we had/ have already), yet thinks that route won't create variants? Yet all the variants we have now largely came from countries that were largely unvaccinated, and nowhere near herd immunity in any kind of way.
If we have vaccines we can adapt them to the variants which will come, he should know this, and certainly does.
If we don't have vaccines, we can't adapt them to the variant that come, as we have no building block/ knowledge, when if they just keep getting worse and worse and natural covid immunity doesn't prevent later variants?

This guy doesn't seem completely nuts, far from it and has very clear vaccine knowledge (similar ot his peers who are all for the vaccines) but he doesn't seem to have any grasp on this from a modelling point of view, or isn't accepting that the vaccines already work exceptionally well (after 2 doses) and that these vaccines will get adapted and made better. The vast majority say this can be controlled with vaccines and there may be some immunity escape but it's nothing like the "do nothing" scenario, where there will also be immunity escape, except 3-5x more natural cases (and deaths), so more opportunity for variants.

I bet he's gutted to not be employed by one of the vaccine companies, wonder why he left?

This guy has had his theories debunked before mind, and his arguments are nullified when countries get herd immunity through a mix of vaccination and by having covid, which Isreal have pretty much done already, and we're not far off. Afte summer/ the exit waves I think this will be a thing of the past for the developed world, yet will take a couple of years longer for third world.

www.mcgill.ca

The Doomsday Prophecy of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a Belgian virus expert, has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.A Belgian virus expert has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.
www.mcgill.ca

Why are all these Dr's not actual medical doctors? This one's a Vet (don't get me wrong mind, it's a high calibre trade).
Click to expand...
Well, Dr. Kory was one, and has been an ICU doctor for 30 years and you dismissed him, so medical doctor ir not, you've shown you don't discriminate.
 
Evil said:
Friends working in India are telling a very different story to what you see in the media - quelle surprise.

Nobody is dying in cars.

The images they are using are from explosions 18 months ago in the media.

You are being lied to.

I've spent the last year and a bit researching.

When the American election audit is done, you'll start to see what this is all really about.
Click to expand...
Well, I spent 8 months in India in 2019, and was meant to be back there now. I am in touch with people there most days.

None of them has ever insinuated, at any stage, that this is being manipulated, or exaggerated at all.

There ARE people dying in cars, and in the streets outside hospitals.

There ARE (and were) enormous shortages of breathing apparatus (Oxygen tanks and masks) in most states.

Equally, there is no clear idea how many people have died or are dying - there is no coherent method of counting that type of data - many deaths go unreported.

Many people never make it as far as hospital - because they cannot afford to be in there/ cannot afford to get there.

And finally (for me) - one of the reasons the situation is SO dire in India is because we (the UK) absolutely rape their health system for their newly trained staff - we let India train them (at their expense), and then we bend our own immigration rules to allow us to employ them at salaries of 15x to 30x what they can earn in India.
 
Randy said:
The African continent covid situation is a strange one. Made up of a lot of very poor countries, poor healthcare systems etc. You would think it would be the worst hit continent yet we aren't seeing horror images in the news.
Click to expand...

I've not got time to read through this thread in any detail but there are a couple of fairly simple facts that go some way towards answering this -

number 1. Look at the population age pyramids of Africa. Much much younger demographic than western countries. Unfortunately, there aren’t too many oldies knocking about. Life expectancy is (shamefully) way waaaaaay lower in Africa. And who is at highest risk from covid?

number 2. Lack of available testing, lack of reporting and lack of transparency.
 
Andy_W said:
1. I'll take your word for it on that
2. It's not proven to work, to a point where it has a point over the alternatives. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying the data is poor, which is what the WHO, EMA and USMA are saying too. Promoting an unproven "wonder drug", which isn't the first, over vaccines is not only unethical, it's actually going to get people killed and slow the point at which we get to herd immunity and can return back to a better economy. By peddling alternatives with no proof you're just putting doubt into peoples minds who do not and will not ever understand, and all this does is lengthen the time of the lockdowns,
3. Why don't you? What have they done for you to think they're bad, you must have loads of evidence? There are millions of people alive who would not be here if it wasn't for the WHO (and its private donors, who also have a history of doing good)
GAVI actually explain the IVM situation quite well, and it makes perfect sense https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ivermectin-why-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-use
4. No, they haven't, the places which have had the most success have prevented/ limited it through control measures, reduced it through lockdowns, and now will come out of it with vaccines. There's a common theme that these things have been argued against (wrongly) by the same people that promote IVM, they think they're being clever, but they're not skilled enough to even have an opinion on it (like us), so we should listen to the experts (and for every one doctors for IVM there are thousands of doctors saying I can't see a benefit or saying I'll trust the WHO, EMA, USMA etc).
5. They don't need to be years away, this is where the WHO and private funding can help too if you let it, instead of undermining it. They (3rd world countries) don't have a massive country stockpile of IVM you know, it would need to be made, moved and administered, and seemingly repeatedly and in large quantities, for a long time. A lot of the countries that will wait for the longest for vaccines have much, much, much bigger problems than covid.

So, seeing as you're not pushing it for anti-vaxers, and the UK, that means you would recommend that every adult gets the vaccine in the UK, yes? Obviously, you agree that the current vaccines proposed to each age group are such low risk and a massive proven collective benefit?
If you could give a million vaccines or a million courses of IVM to a third world country, what would you give? How many years IVM will they need?

The WHO, Covid and IVM situation is not a conspiracy, the conspiracies have become the conspiracy. There are loads of buyers of conspiracies, and these buyers tend to buy more than one, they think they're open-minded but they're more of a closed shop, down the rabbit hole. There are a few people who will take to promoting them or mentioning conspiracies, feeding off people to line their own pockets and make a name for themselves, it's massive business. Most of these small studies from SA are from people who have a financial interest in IVM based treatments, most people making youtube videos get more money with more hits, and controversial topics cause a feedback loop for the conspiracy lot. A video saying "get your vaccine, they work" isn't exactly going to get many hits is it, as a massive majority know they work (and very well), and don't need to go down the rabbit hole to realise it.

IVM is not free to make, and the companies that do make it will want to make money, and so will the transport companies, and the people that give it to patients also need to be paid, it may work out cheaper to make, but that's not the full costs (it's probably about 5% of the delivered cost).

The truth is already out, conspiracy guys just move on from one conspiracy to the next

All of the crap below has been peddled by the conspiracy/ "open minded" lot :rolleyes::

Covid isn't real, Hydroxychloroquine is the saviour, mocking the 400k deaths model (which was based on doing nothing), Yeadon "no aysmtomatic transmission" (and many others) is the messiah, Henegan "no second wave" is the messiah, the IFR is 0.001%, the IFR is 0.2%, Tegnell is the messiah, Lockdowns don't help, Vaccines don't help, masks don't help, PCR doesn't work, Kary Mullis, LFD have loads of false positives, social distancing doesn't help, Bill Gates, nanobots, Magnetism, WHO is bad etc etc :rolleyes:

The people peddling the above get it wrong, over and over, yet now they think they've nailed it with IVM? I doubt it, but even a broken clock is wrong twice a day. A time will come when one thing will be right, but it will be incomparable to the additional damage caused if we believed the previous crap.
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Spot on but you missed 5G out and the printer engineer Ivor Cummins.
 
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