Tesla exposed

Billy69_uk said:
electric cars and busses for that matter are a very local solution to a global problem.

Yes, having electric vehicles in a city will improve air quality in that city, that is beyond question. Less hydrocarbons, less NOx, less pollutants.

BUT, unless you electricity is 100% generated by renewable means, you are just exporting your emissions to a different place.

and lest not talk about the mining methods to extract all those precious metals and chemicals like cobalt, nickel, copper, lithium etc that are used in batteries and electric motors etc. That's someone elses problem.
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That's just what I've said above. Over the lifetime of the vehicle research tells us the EV is more damaging to the environment than a vehicle with a combustion engine. I would never buy one for that reason....
 
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Laughing said:
All cars are terrible for the environment. We should really all stop owning them and use public transport.

The only thing worse for the environment than mass produced cars are mass produced people.
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We need to stop the planet's car obsession. In this country it is crazy - everyone thinks they have the right to drive, park where they want, drive how they want etc.

We need a fundamental change of attitude when it comes to cars and it needs to start at the very top. We need to stop wasting money on terrible road design and building more roads and plough this money into public transport and alternative ways to travel. Feel duty needs to increase, VED needs to swap from an annual charge to a mileage based charge based on polluting and the larger the car the larger the VAT.

Advertising campaigns need to be produced to change attitudes and convince people that the climate crisis is real and things need to change.

anyway, there are far too many cars on the roads. They are like rats - go down any new estate and they are 3 per house pared up the kerbs. It's selfish.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
That's just what I've said above. Over the lifetime of the vehicle research tells us the EV is more damaging to the environment than a vehicle with a combustion engine. I would never buy one for that reason....
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There are many, many studies that show the opposite. The big cost is battery production, but this is because most are built in countries like China and India where renewable energy sources have not got a large footprint.

One of the best things we can do with our foreign aid budget is to support countries that do not use a lot of renewables to increase them. Do that and the lifetime cost of electric vehicles is way, way below that of petrol / diesel vehicles.

It is the same policy we should have in every country, plant trees, use more public transport, harness wind, wave and solar. Do that across the board and we can stop harming this planet so badly and so fast.
 
BoroMart said:
Pick mine up soon, I'll let you know how the new 2021s build quality is. They're apparently improving all the time.

I guess you trade that build and material quality, for technology, service, and of course as a company car they're far far cheaper
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Tesla? It'll probably be a made in China one. Looks like build quality is better on those boys. American car manufacturers generally don't have quality so getting one made in China will help
 
BoroMart said:
There are many, many studies that show the opposite. The big cost is battery production, but this is because most are built in countries like China and India where renewable energy sources have not got a large footprint.

One of the best things we can do with our foreign aid budget is to support countries that do not use a lot of renewables to increase them. Do that and the lifetime cost of electric vehicles is way, way below that of petrol / diesel vehicles.

It is the same policy we should have in every country, plant trees, use more public transport, harness wind, wave and solar. Do that across the board and we can stop harming this planet so badly and so fast.
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batteries (the sort used in mobile applications like cars and busses) have a very definite usable life span. I am yet to be convinced that the 2nd life or recycling costs both financial and environmental have been taken into wider consideration.

A car battery pack will not last 10 years, so cars themselves will be scrapped or recycled as the cost of replacing batteries will be higher than the residual value of the car, and a new car built to take its place.

The whole car buying model will need to change to a leasing one for this to be in any way viable in the long term. I am not sure the big picture adds up, and I currently have a hybrid petrol electric car at the moment a a company car.
 
Was is wrong with using cars used by green hydrogen? (hydrogen produced from renewable energy)

They don't need these big batteries and they will drive more than 175 miles without needing a recharge.

With electricity - we will are unlikely to produce enough renewable power for all our needs. so will need to rely on nuclear, wood pellets and some fossil fuels such as natural gas. Nuclear has its dangers and where does the waste go for the next 10,000 years?, wood pellets needs millions of trees a year (the giant Drax power station near Selby uses them and is effectively burning up 10% of North Carolina to power it. Also there are going to massive electricity demands for heating homes when gas boilers are banned.

Ref polluting the planet - its pointless people in the UK reducing carbon emissions, when China opens a new coal fired power station every month, the trapped carbon will surely just swill round the planet. When is China going to stop building coal fired stations?

If people ate less meat it was would have the biggest impact on improving the environment and of course a smaller population. When I was at school in the 1970s the world population I think was around 3,000 million now its 7,000 million? and still growing.
 
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MolteniArcore said:
We need to stop the planet's car obsession. In this country it is crazy - everyone thinks they have the right to drive, park where they want, drive how they want etc.

We need a fundamental change of attitude when it comes to cars and it needs to start at the very top. We need to stop wasting money on terrible road design and building more roads and plough this money into public transport and alternative ways to travel. Feel duty needs to increase, VED needs to swap from an annual charge to a mileage based charge based on polluting and the larger the car the larger the VAT.

Advertising campaigns need to be produced to change attitudes and convince people that the climate crisis is real and things need to change.

anyway, there are far too many cars on the roads. They are like rats - go down any new estate and they are 3 per house pared up the kerbs. It's selfish.
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I take it you don't drive?

🤣

Increase duel duty? Yeah because we don't pay enough for fuel as it is, let's punish the poorer folks more so only the rich and famous can drive.

Everybody does have the right to drive if they want to or should it just be a pastime for people who can afford it?


Easiest solution? Put a price cap on electric/hybrid vehicles, I'd also fast track the introduction of hydrogen technology. If we really wanted to go big with it I'd implement a petrol and diesel car amnesty. Hear me out.

If you own a petrol or diesel car that is less than 5 years old you can take it to a car dealer and straight swap it for a electric/hydrogen car, the only fees to pay been for the paperwork etc. Car dealers can then make money back by scrapping the petrol and diesel cars. Then make it illegal to drive a petrol or diesel car after a 5 year period, gives everybody the opportunity to swap their cars for greener ones then. Also doesn't punish people financially
 
Redwurzel said:
Was in wrong with using cars used by green hydrogen? (hydrogen produced from renewable energy)

They don't need these big batteries and they will drive more than 175 miles without needing a recharge.
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Hydrogen fuel cells in car and vehicles still need batteries, although not as big as a pure electric car. Fuel cells like to operate at a steady state constant load to be efficient, and they only way that works well in mobile applications is to use batteries and effectively use the fuel cell to constantly charge the batteries and use the battery stored energy to take the peaks on acceleration etc.

Hydrogen storage is also a consideration, especially if you want range, then you need to have high pressure hydrogen on board which is a tricky proposition in metal boxes which crash into each other.

Saying that, I think this can all be overcome and hydrogen is probably the best mix of tech we have today without completely altering the way we use cars (which I dont think we are ready for just yet).

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Randy said:
I take it you don't drive?

🤣

Increase duel duty? Yeah because we don't pay enough for fuel as it is, let's punish the poorer folks more so only the rich and famous can drive.

Everybody does have the right to drive if they want to or should it just be a pastime for people who can afford it?


Easiest solution? Put a price cap on electric/hybrid vehicles, I'd also fast track the introduction of hydrogen technology. If we really wanted to go big with it I'd implement a petrol and diesel car amnesty. Hear me out.

If you own a petrol or diesel car that is less than 5 years old you can take it to a car dealer and straight swap it for a electric/hydrogen car, the only fees to pay been for the paperwork etc. Car dealers can then make money back by scrapping the petrol and diesel cars. Then make it illegal to drive a petrol or diesel car after a 5 year period, gives everybody the opportunity to swap their cars for greener ones then. Also doesn't punish people financially
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I don't think a price cap would be a good idea at all. Despite being an EV owner I actually love performance cars. If there was a price cap the Porsche Taycan wouldn't exist, or the Tesla model s plaid. You'd never have a project like the lotus Evija or Rimac
 
Randy said:
I take it you don't drive?

🤣

Increase duel duty? Yeah because we don't pay enough for fuel as it is, let's punish the poorer folks more so only the rich and famous can drive.

Everybody does have the right to drive if they want to or should it just be a pastime for people who can afford it?


Easiest solution? Put a price cap on electric/hybrid vehicles, I'd also fast track the introduction of hydrogen technology. If we really wanted to go big with it I'd implement a petrol and diesel car amnesty. Hear me out.

If you own a petrol or diesel car that is less than 5 years old you can take it to a car dealer and straight swap it for a electric/hydrogen car, the only fees to pay been for the paperwork etc. Car dealers can then make money back by scrapping the petrol and diesel cars. Then make it illegal to drive a petrol or diesel car after a 5 year period, gives everybody the opportunity to swap their cars for greener ones then. Also doesn't punish people financially
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Got a 10 year old diesel van and a 3 year old mini-SUV type car Randy. I have driven all over the country with work, commuting 2 hours each way some days. This weekend I'll be vanning it over to the other side of the pennines to see familiy - it would be nearly impossible to do that in a day taking my bike using public transport currently.

Fuel duty needs to go up to stop people making short journeys. Over half of journeys are less than 5 miles.

Nobody has the right to drive. You need to pass two tests first. Then you still need to follow the law. If you don't your right is taken away. Sadly a lot of people forget this and think that it is a god given right.

Even swapping existing cars with electric doesn't solve the problems associated with car ownership. The roads need to be maintained, new roads get built, countryside destroyed etc... Tyres, are they green? Oil for moving parts in the car? Chemicals in batteries? Tarmac, good for the planet?

And then don't forget how many people are killed on the roads. Or how many fatties chose to get in their car rather than walk half a mile. Parking issues (cars parked on pavements and clogging up housing estates) Reducing cars has a lot of benefits. More cars doesn't really have many.

Oh, and I think all cars should be limited to 10 mph over the speed limit. Which would mean no car on the roads would be able to go faster than 80mph. New cars that have GPS in them would only be able to go at 40 in a 30, 70 in a 60 etc...
 
Thanks Billy

That was an interesting post. I guessed hydrogen could be dangerous is a major crash, but petrol is too and we have used that for 120 years. In the early 70s my parents had a Cortina powered by what looked like Calor gas that they used as a Taxi. There was a bottle of gas on its side fixed down in the boot. They filled it up South Bank/Teesport area which was close to theor business. There no duty on it. The car ran well with the range of a petrol car, but i think the Government started putting duty on it. A lesson from history - tax will come on electric cars once they become popular.
 
Redwurzel said:
Thanks Billy

That was an interesting post. I guessed hydrogen could be dangerous is a major crash, but petrol is too and we have used that for 120 years. In the early 70s my parents had a Cortina powered by what looked like Calor gas that they used as a Taxi. There was a bottle of gas on its side fixed down in the boot. They filled it up South Bank/Teesport area which was close to theor business. There no duty on it. The car ran well with the range of a petrol car, but i think the Government started putting duty on it. A lesson from history - tax will come on electric cars once they become popular.
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James May did a piece on hydrogen cars nearly 10 years ago now on top gear. I'm sure it was a Honda. I think Hyundai have a hydrogen powered option on one of their cars too but I don't think it's available in this country.
 
SmallTown said:
Tesla? It'll probably be a made in China one. Looks like build quality is better on those boys. American car manufacturers generally don't have quality so getting one made in China will help
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Yes, it is a made in china one. I used to have a pontiac Grand Prix when I was in the US, it felt like you take it apart with a lego stud remover, or maybe going over a large speed bump
 
SmallTown said:
That's simply not true. The latter part yes, will be the end goal but EVs are definitely a step along the path to reducing the damage we are doing to the environment.
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They are filthy things, the mining for copper and lithium for the batteries is disgusting, the generation of electricity is most countries is filthy, and the disposal of the things poses great problems. A modern diesel car is far cleaner over a normal life cycle !
 
Laughing said:
All cars are terrible for the environment. We should really all stop owning them and use public transport.

The only thing worse for the environment than mass produced cars are mass produced people.
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Buses running about with next to no-one on them isn't very green is it ?
 
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