Our Academy... What is the point?

Someone posted yesterday that it was good to see young players on the bench. I didn't understand that, and I still don't. If you have no intention of playing someone, then don't put him on the bench. All that achieved yesterday was pi****ng off a few good young players who sat and watched as Assombalonga, who hasn't cared for 2 seasons, goes on, wanders about for 20 minutes and walks off again.

If you put yourselves in that position - I'm going to put you on the bench, but you won't play - wouldn't that hack you off absolutely and completely? If it was me, I'd think "there's no point in being here. I'm not valued. They'd rather Assombalonga - who doesn't care a jot - than me. If I'm serious about wanting to be a footballer, I'm out of here".

I think if you ask the likes of Coburn and Malley, yes theyll be itching to get a chance but theyll be buzzing they are involved with the first team at this stage in their career, especially Josh.

Downing did a good interview earlier this season saying when McClaren got him involved with the first team. Told him he wasnt going to play but he had nearly a year where he was involved and told to take note of how senior players prepared etc, and he said it was huge for him in his development.
 
Someone posted yesterday that it was good to see young players on the bench. I didn't understand that, and I still don't. If you have no intention of playing someone, then don't put him on the bench. All that achieved yesterday was pi****ng off a few good young players who sat and watched as Assombalonga, who hasn't cared for 2 seasons, goes on, wanders about for 20 minutes and walks off again.

If you put yourselves in that position - I'm going to put you on the bench, but you won't play - wouldn't that hack you off absolutely and completely? If it was me, I'd think "there's no point in being here. I'm not valued. They'd rather Assombalonga - who doesn't care a jot - than me. If I'm serious about wanting to be a footballer, I'm out of here".
The point is to get in them in and around the first team. To try and bridge the step up from youth team to first team football. Warnock should have however brought on one, two or all three off the lads on the bench yesterday.
 
I think if you ask the likes of Coburn and Malley, yes theyll be itching to get a chance but theyll be buzzing they are involved with the first team at this stage in their career, especially Josh.

Downing did a good interview earlier this season saying when McClaren got him involved with the first team. Told him he wasnt going to play but he had nearly a year where he was involved and told to take note of how senior players prepared etc, and he said it was huge for him in his development.

Maybe, but there's a world of difference between the players McClaren had in the squad, versus the likes of Saville and Assombalonga. You could be forgiven for thinking they didn't prepare at all. They can't even kick it properly, let alone prepare for a league match.
 
Maybe, but there's a world of difference between the players McClaren had in the squad, versus the likes of Saville and Assombalonga. You could be forgiven for thinking they didn't prepare at all. They can't even kick it properly, let alone prepare for a league match.

Absolutely agree in the terms of quality, but theres still players like Howson, McNair, Watmore who the young players will learn plenty from in terms of preparation.

Some of the comments earlier in the season when Folarin got a chance, made you think hed struggle to get his game in the Northern League. Id love to see some of the young ones get a chance but have to trust the ones in charge to manage that in the right way.
 
My criticism is of the whole organisation. When appointing a manager it should be a prerequisite that he is at least going to look at the players at younger levels and watch some of their games.

Whilst I agree with that to a certain extent the players have to be good enough. I’d love nothing more than a home grown striker to come through and bang in 30 goals a season, but they are like rocking horse shît. I think we’ll see a few from our academy break through next year, Bryn, Hackney, Malley etc. We have had a few come through in recent years though, Fry, Tav, Pears, Coulson, Wood etc, and I don’t think club have ever tried to hide the fact that the academy can bring in revenue. How much have we made over the last 20 years on Downing, Johnson, Gibson, Wheater etc? Plus all the little bit here and there on players like Liddle and Pears. This is not a unique Boro thing though, most clubs are in the same position. It certainly feels like make or break time for a few like Walker and Coulson.
 
Last edited:
Coburn probably would do better than Assombolonga, I probably would, but young players can also have their careers ruined by being thrown in too early.
And you don’t throw 3 young players in for their debut in one game, that’s ridiculous.

The fact is the people who are best placed to decide are deciding, so when it’s best for Coburn and Malley and also most beneficial to Boro for the long term, they’ll get their chance.
 
If they're ready and good enough they'll get a chance. Unless you know these players personally, no-one knows their temperament and whether or not being thrown into a struggling team and risk ending up looking as lost as Kike Sola could seriously knock their confidence.

Think on balance I'll go with the judgement from the experts rather than armchair experts on a message board as to how best to bring in the youngsters.

There's lots of legitimate things to moan about with the club at present. How we develop our young players isn't one of them.
 
Coburn probably would do better than Assombolonga, I probably would, but young players can also have their careers ruined by being thrown in too early.
And you don’t throw 3 young players in for their debut in one game, that’s ridiculous.

The fact is the people who are best placed to decide are deciding, so when it’s best for Coburn and Malley and also most beneficial to Boro for the long term, they’ll get their chance.
Which players have had their careers ruined by being thrown in too early?
 
I've thought it for a long time but this is one aspect of the club that really needs looking at. It must cost an absolute fortune to run the academy and for what? 99.9% of the kids in our academy don't get a look in. Yes there's the odd one (Tav, Fry etc) but on the whole it is massively underused.

If we had a first team full of top top players you would think fair enough but time after time our youngsters are being cast aside to make way for bang average experienced players who often cost the club silly money (Assombalonga and Saville prime examples).

Yesterday just summed the whole situation up for me. We have absolutely nothing to play for. Half of these first teamers are already on their holidays. Surely yesterday was the time to blood some of these youngsters? Now I'm not saying these youngsters are the answer, but how will we ever know if we don't give them a chance? At this stage of the season we should be getting the most highly rated players not just from the under 23's but from the under 18's and giving these lads a go. Who would you rather see at this stage of the season? A bang average first teamer going through the motions or a young kid with his big chance and everything to prove. It's a unique situation where there's also no crowd in. So they don't have the added pressure of playing in front of 20,000 people. To not take advantage of that situation is criminal for me and very very frustrating.

Why is Archer getting a game over Brynn? Why are Malley and Hackney getting overlooked when our midfield has been poor for weeks. There's a highly rated youngster in the Under 18's Kavanagh. Just give him a go! The kid was linked with top clubs so he must have something about him. He can not do any worse than Akpom, Assombalonga etc. To not bring Coburn on and opt for Assombalonga who Warnock has already said won't be here next season is baffling to say the least.

It just feels to me that we're getting this all wrong.
Good post 18MFC & the vbery reason I had my rant yesterday

Its the 1st time I've been dispaointed with NW since he arrived, seen Assombalonga coming on made me more angrier than the result, then seeing Fletcher ready to come, thankfully he didnt, the off button would have been pressed if both waters would have come on
 
Which players have had their careers ruined by being thrown in too early?
Connor Ripley. He’s still making a career for himself, but when he was thrown in against Burnley it was clearly far too soon. Don’t think we had much choice at the time to be fair. Hard to know if he would be somewhere else now if it wasn’t for that, but he was always being talked up by the club, as we seem to do with our young goalkeepers.
 
If they're ready and good enough they'll get a chance. Unless you know these players personally, no-one knows their temperament and whether or not being thrown into a struggling team and risk ending up looking as lost as Kike Sola could seriously knock their confidence.

Think on balance I'll go with the judgement from the experts rather than armchair experts on a message board as to how best to bring in the youngsters.

There's lots of legitimate things to moan about with the club at present. How we develop our young players isn't one of them.
Thats ok, but what happens if youre winning 2-0 & comfortable, then decide to bring the young players on & it changes the who game, we struggle & end up losing 3-2, they'd be gutted & think they were at fault
We had players just going through the motions yesterday bring the youngsters on would have been the right time for me
 
Getting young players on the bench is an important step because if they're paying attention, they'll essentially have a live commentary from the coaches on what is working, not working, guiding them to how the first team are expected to play and hopefully reflect on where they need help to improve.
 
Connor Ripley. He’s still making a career for himself, but when he was thrown in against Burnley it was clearly far too soon. Don’t think we had much choice at the time to be fair. Hard to know if he would be somewhere else now if it wasn’t for that, but he was always being talked up by the club, as we seem to do with our young goalkeepers.
I think there is a difference between too soon & ready to start, if it's too soon then they shouldnt be on the bench, simple as that
 
Sam folarin although only played limited games looked way out of his depth (not a problem) and has been sent on loan to develop. What's wrong with that approach?

We will never know how these players will adapt they could save us a few million or maybe need the loan, nothing ventured and all that.
 
Coburn probably would do better than Assombolonga, I probably would, but young players can also have their careers ruined by being thrown in too early.
And you don’t throw 3 young players in for their debut in one game, that’s ridiculous.

The fact is the people who are best placed to decide are deciding, so when it’s best for Coburn and Malley and also most beneficial to Boro for the long term, they’ll get their chance.
Can you name a player who's career was ruined by being thrown in too early? The reality is they probably werent good enough or didnt have the temperament or attitude to succeed.
 
Sam folarin although only played limited games looked way out of his depth (not a problem) and has been sent on loan to develop. What's wrong with that approach?

We will never know how these players will adapt they could save us a few million or maybe need the loan, nothing ventured and all that.
Folarin isn't out on loan (Lewis Wing, Isaiah Jones, Nathan Wood, Stephen Walker & Dejan Stojanovic are the only players out on loan)

Maybes more should be out, learning, making mistakes for other teams & hopefully getting better but its absolutely pointless them just playing U23 games and not moving on.

If Connor Malley is half as good as Maddo thinks he is should be playing on Wednesday night so we can all find out.
 
I have to agree with the Op here, this last few games presented a unique opportunity, not only because the season has petered out to nothing, so the remaining games are meaningless in terms of promotion or relegation, several of the players will be moving on at the end of the season, whether it be end of contract or loan and more unique than anything, there are currently no crowds, so none of that outside pressure, so not using some of the young lads for their development, effectively a free hit, is baffling, bringing Britt on yesterday made no sense whatsoever in the current scheme of things.
 
The OP has picked an issue that has little to do with Warnock and used it to critisize him. Not sure what the agenda is, but there is clearly one. Probably that he wants warnock to freeze out some players, and he may have a point. So make that point not a spurious point about our academy.
 
Can you name a player who's career was ruined by being thrown in too early? The reality is they probably werent good enough or didnt have the temperament or attitude to succeed.

Good enough at the time agreed which is why young players should be managed correctly. That doesnt mean they wouldnt be ready, or have the temperament or attitude at a later date.

We've had plenty who we've put in too early down the years who for whatever reason didnt make it. Yes we can never say if they would have done if they had been put in at a later date, but thats down to more informed professionals than any of us.

We've had the likes of Keith O'Halloran and John Johnson thrown in and were pretty much ripped apart in their debuts and then never recovered. I know the reply will be, well they were never ever good enough, but who knows? Luke Williams arguably was thrown in too quick at 16 and never really recovered. Same with Micky Cummins, Mark Hudson, Sean Kilgannon etc. Weve been much better in recent years selecting when the time was right to blood kids (or not) such as Dael Fry, Marcus Tavernier etc.
 
Back
Top