Well ain't Keir Starmer a grand man...

BoroFur said:
Sunak is certainly polishing his image ready for a tilt at the leadership.

Ordinary Joe Public calling him and Johnson by their Christian names as if they're bezzy mates is gag-inducing.
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Boris isn't even his christian name, that's Alexander. Boris is a nickname, an alter ego. If Sunak starts asking to be called Ricky Sunak then you know where he's headed.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Seriously, I think you need to wait and see what happens over the coming months and years.

The economy is bust.
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The majority of businesses should recover, furlough has at least given them a chance. Long term furlough will be far better than if millions had just lost their jobs outright, some areas would have never recovered from that.

Really what other option did they have?
 
JM14 said:
The majority of businesses should recover, furlough has at least given them a chance. Long term furlough will be far better than if millions had just lost their jobs outright, some areas would have never recovered from that.

Really what other option did they have?
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I hope you are right, and if you are then I agree the furlough will have been worthwhile.

There is a bit of resentment over it though, you must remember many people in this country only worry about themselves.
 
JM14 said:
The majority of businesses should recover, furlough has at least given them a chance. Long term furlough will be far better than if millions had just lost their jobs outright, some areas would have never recovered from that.

Really what other option did they have?
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The business I work for will be opening up again April 12th all been well. Without furlough that would never have happened.
We've got a team meeting at the end of the month to go through strategy and a bit of team bonding too. Gonna be a big year.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I hope you are right, and if you are then I agree the furlough will have been worthwhile.

There is a bit of resentment over it though, you must remember many people in this country only worry about themselves.
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The media has caused resentment for pretty much every section of society though, only way the government continue to get away with things by convincing people to blame each other for their problems.

Really don’t get the resentment around those on furlough either, yes the time off would clearly be nice, but I don’t expect being sat at home with nowhere to go worrying if you’ll have a job to go back to is going to be much fun for anyone.
 
Randy said:
The business I work for will be opening up again April 12th all been well. Without furlough that would never have happened.
We've got a team meeting at the end of the month to go through strategy and a bit of team bonding too. Gonna be a big year.
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Hope it goes well, hopefully most places can bounce back
 
HolgateCorner said:
The economy is bust.
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How?

In what way?

You can't just say the economy is 'bust' without defining what 'bust' means.

It's bad enough just referring to the 'economy' which means different things to different people at different times.

I'd argue that the system is bust and has been for a long time. Covid restrictions have thrown that into stark relief. Years of unnecessary austerity have removed the safety-net required for a functioning society. The difference between the haves and have-nots is greater now than it's been at any time in modern history. The way benefits have been appropriated by businesses and landlords to fund workers and rentier lifestyles respectively is a sad reflection on where we are.

No-one in a full-time job should need to be on benefits in order to pay rent and feed themselves.
 
Randy said:
The business I work for will be opening up again April 12th all been well. Without furlough that would never have happened.
We've got a team meeting at the end of the month to go through strategy and a bit of team bonding too. Gonna be a big year.
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JM14 said:
The media has caused resentment for pretty much every section of society though, only way the government continue to get away with things by convincing people to blame each other for their problems.

Really don’t get the resentment around those on furlough either, yes the time off would clearly be nice, but I don’t expect being sat at home with nowhere to go worrying if you’ll have a job to go back to is going to be much fun for anyone.
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I don’t think it is just the media. I know one or two are not keen on what I am posting but I’m only reporting what I hear people saying, there are people I know complaining that they are picking up the work of furloughed staff and working long hours stuck in their bedroom. There are complaints about furloughed trades people doing cash in hand jobs and bragging about doing better than ever. There are all sorts of stories.
Scrote said:
How?

In what way?

You can't just say the economy is 'bust' without defining what 'bust' means.

It's bad enough just referring to the 'economy' which means different things to different people at different times.

I'd argue that the system is bust and has been for a long time. Covid restrictions have thrown that into stark relief. Years of unnecessary austerity have removed the safety-net required for a functioning society. The difference between the haves and have-nots is greater now than it's been at any time in modern history. The way benefits have been appropriated by businesses and landlords to fund workers and rentier lifestyles respectively is a sad reflection on where we are.

No-one in a full-time job should need to be on benefits in order to pay rent and feed themselves.
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I agree with you. When I say bust I mean that the UK is hopelessly in debt. The government has needed to borrow massive amounts for years to sustain what I think is a relatively modest and possibly declining lifestyle for the average person. And yet we are one of the richest countries in the world. It’s shockingly out of balance and completely unsustainable in my view with successive PMs and governments just kicking the can down the road and hoping any system collapse or correction will happen on somebody else’s watch.
 
HolgateCorner said:
When I say bust I mean that the UK is hopelessly in debt.
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In debt to whom?

The Government prints money. The Government spends money. The Government recovers money through taxation to prevent inflation. There's no third party involved.

There is no debt.

There is just a choice as to how and where money is spent.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I don’t think it is just the media. I know one or two are not keen on what I am posting but I’m only reporting what I hear people saying, there are people I know complaining that they are picking up the work of furloughed staff and working long hours stuck in their bedroom. There are complaints about furloughed trades people doing cash in hand jobs and bragging about doing better than ever. There are all sorts of stories.
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There always are. Usually peddled by those that are hard of thinking. File with benefits cheats, immigrants stealing jobs and the rest. Without the furlough scheme the country would have been devastated. It was an absolute necessity.

HolgateCorner said:
I agree with you. When I say bust I mean that the UK is hopelessly in debt. The government has needed to borrow massive amounts for years to sustain what I think is a relatively modest and possibly declining lifestyle for the average person. And yet we are one of the richest countries in the world. It’s shockingly out of balance and completely unsustainable in my view with successive PMs and governments just kicking the can down the road and hoping any system collapse or correction will happen on somebody else’s watch.
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This is the myth that is peddled. It simply isn't and hasn't been true since 1971 when currency stopped being linked to the value of anything at alland instead became a national promise to pay by the government. Debt has been growing for hundreds of years and it simply does not matter. It is just money the government has created but not yet taxed back because it is still in use in the economy i.e. a promise to pay. We could cancel that debt whenever we wanted to. It is not debt at all, just government created money. And because of that it is a big massive red herring. It simply does not matter.
 
Scrote said:
In debt to whom?

The Government prints money. The Government spends money. The Government recovers money through taxation to prevent inflation. There's no third party involved.

There is no debt.

There is just a choice as to how and where money is spent.
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You we’re doing well until you mentioned taxation.

Its the politicians themselves who refer to government borrowing, not me.

Where there’s money there will be a bond somewhere.
 
Adi_Dem said:
There always are. Usually peddled by those that are hard of thinking. File with benefits cheats, immigrants stealing jobs and the rest. Without the furlough scheme the country would have been devastated. It was an absolute necessity.


This is the myth that is peddled. It simply isn't and hasn't been true since 1971 when currency stopped being linked to the value of anything at alland instead became a national promise to pay by the government. Debt has been growing for hundreds of years and it simply does not matter. It is just money the government has created but not yet taxed back because it is still in use in the economy i.e. a promise to pay. We could cancel that debt whenever we wanted to. It is not debt at all, just government created money. And because of that it is a big massive red herring. It simply does not matter.
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Adi for PM, Chancellor and Governor of the Bank of England!

All sorted.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Its the politicians themselves who refer to government borrowing, not me.
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And they do that deliberately to obscure what actually happens.

Rishi Sunak spent time yesterday describing how we've borrowed more money since WWII so need to head back to austerity to pay it back.

It's smoke & mirrors. We borrowed from the USA & Canada for the war. We owed money TO someone.

We're now 'in debt' to ourselves. It's just double-entry accounting - shifting funds from one place to another. There is no debt owed to a third party.

What are bonds for? Why does the Bank Of England buy UK Government bonds?
 
HolgateCorner said:
You we’re doing well until you mentioned taxation.

Its the politicians themselves who refer to government borrowing, not me.

Where there’s money there will be a bond somewhere.
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Yes of course they do. To pull the wool over your eyes. And it works beautifully.
HolgateCorner said:
Adi for PM, Chancellor and Governor of the Bank of England!

All sorted.
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All you need to do is read a little.
 
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