Very angry Downing

Laughing said:
It's a shabby way to do business with anyone Coluka. I expect open honesty in my dealings with people in both business and my personal life.

It may be he has given a biased account, but people saying the truth lies somewhere in the middle.... The middle of what. Why would you assume he is lying.

People berrating Downing I just don't get, one of the best players to ever pull on a boro shirt.
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Now, where have I said it wasn’t shabby or Downing was lying, thats a bit misleading of you is it not? I could have sworn I said I did not like the waiver issue. However, if you think Gibson was wrong to put the club before the player despite his own mistake then what would you have thought of him then had the club contractually have given him a contract they could not afford? He got himself and the club out of a hole of his own making.

I doubt Gibson believed the club would be where it was at the time he signed the deal. Plenty of players have done the dirty on Boro allegedly over the years. It is how business operates. It is rarely personal, circumstances changed over the period of the contract, Gibson reacted to the change, a bit like my hero Juninho did in 97.
 
Dont want to knock him. I think he had potential to be world class, for whatever reason we dont know he never reached his full potential but has had a great career and a player we’re all proud of. But how many times in that did he say im settled, i want this, give me that. As you say block, he hadn’t earned a new deal and if he had got one, a lot of posters would of rightly pointed out the jobs for boys stuff. Wouldn’t be surprised if Pulis was stringing him along and left it to Gibson to clean up
 
M
Ted_DN38416 said:
Dont want to knock him. I think he had potential to be world class, for whatever reason we dont know he never reached his full potential but has had a great career and a player we’re all proud of. But how many times in that did he say im settled, i want this, give me that. As you say block, he hadn’t earned a new deal and if he had got one, a lot of posters would of rightly pointed out the jobs for boys stuff. Wouldn’t be surprised if Pulis was stringing him along and left it to Gibson to clean up
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Managers are managers, they do not have the say on contract terms, they also don't have a guaranteed veto on transfers, the owner has that privilege, Pulis in Downings words was embarrassed to do what he was employed to do, nothing more.
 
As others have said there will be three sides to this. However I can easily believe what Downing has to say, there are other players who have reported similar shady behaviour by the club in the past. For example Danny Mills in his interview on the BBC Tees podcast told how he was strung along with his loan at the club with a string of broken promises and moving goalposts along the the way with the club being dishonest with him about their intentions to sign him permanently. Before eventually negotiating behind his back with Reiziger and not being up front with him about his future.

As for Downing, I think a lot of fans have completely rewritten his second spell with the club. He was in essence a victim of his own high standards as a lot of fans expected a Mersonesque promotion winning performance with him taking games by the scruff of the neck and dominating in the goal and assist charts. When that didn't happen and he didn't reach those heights he was dismissed as useless (for the money, as his wage was always held against him) and the boo boys got stuck in. Which was never going to help as Downing is the archetypal confidence player.

Whilst his second spell wasn't anywhere near as successful as the first one he often produced moments of class in games though looked like he was struggling to find players on the same wavelength as him. In many games he was more than adequate at Championship level but as he wasn't completely ripping it up as some fans expected they got stuck into him. Had we signed a midfield player called Joe Bloggs who hadn't played for the club previously and he delivered similar performance levels to Downing I'm not so sure people would have been anything like as critical of the performances. There would be more balance rather than constantly looking for the negatives all the time.

Yes, he didn't deliver a high number of goals and assists in that 2nd spell but you can impact a game and positively contribute without scoring or assisting. Equally you can trip over the ball and fall on your backside but if someone then scores from the loose ball you bag an assist. Opta has a lot to answer for, I prefer to use my own eyes to judge performances and not solely rely on stats. He wasn't sizzlingly brilliant in that second spell but he was ok and nowhere near as bad as many fans make out. I think the fact of the matter is some fans just never particularly warmed to the lad, even in his brilliant pomp in his first spell I can remember him getting stick for being a 'fanny' (their words not mine) when tough tackling was never his game.
 
ChrisTheRed said:
Former England winger Stewart Downing has revealed the broken promise that led to him leaving boyhood club Middlesbrough with ‘a bitter taste in his mouth’.

The 36-year-old, who is currently playing in the Championship for Blackburn and previously spent time at Liverpool and Aston Villa, featured over 400 times for Boro across two stints before being told to find a new club despite a handshake agreement he would be offered an extension.

It all played out as he helped earn the club promotion back to the Premier League.

“Tony Pulis tried to get me a new deal, I think it was a two-year deal, maybe be part of the academy staff (after), and I said ‘yeah that’s perfect for me, I’ll take that all day long’,” Downing explained on Optus Sport’s Two Sharp Reds podcast with Mark Schwarzer and Ollie Geale.

“This goes on for six months, but I had a clause in my contract that if I played 23 games, I get another extension.

“I got to 22 games and we were playing on New Years Day, and Pulis pulls me in with Jonathan, my brother in law, and he didn’t even know. They’ve had a phone call in the morning from (owner and chairman) Steve Gibson to say ‘Stewart can’t play anymore, can’t start, he’s not getting that new deal’.

“I said ‘right, you’ve left it right until the last game to do this, you’ve known for six months, why didn’t you tell me?’.

“He was embarrassed really, Pulis. I was an important player for him, playing every week, and he said to me ‘you can’t start, but any chance I’ll put you on.’


“It got to a point when there were about 10 games to go and Pulis said to me, 'if you sign this waiver, the club will offer you something in the summer'. Steve Gibson literally promised me, we had a meeting and he said ‘if you sign this waiver to play the last eight games to try and get us promoted, I’ll offer you something in the summer – a reduced contract’.

Downing continued: “I said right, we shook hands, I signed the waiver, played in the last eight games, and then (CEO) Neil Bausor rang me and said 'you’re free to speak to other clubs, you can leave'.

“That left a bitter taste in my mouth. A local lad, played over 400 games (for the club), come back, got promotion and then bang.

“My dad spoke to the chairman and it didn’t end well. A naughty conversation. It was a massive fallout.

“Unbelievable. I’d helped him, I’d signed a waiver, I was going to take a reduced contract. I was home, I was settled.”

“I’ve been back once, played against them with Blackburn. I got an amazing reception, got clapped before the game and came off with 10 minutes to go and got a standing ovation. I was thinking, why didn’t they do that when I was there? I was getting booed the last season!”
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This brings it home. Downing a great servant to the club treat like dog ****
 
theredrooster said:
As others have said there will be three sides to this. However I can easily believe what Downing has to say, there are other players who have reported similar shady behaviour by the club in the past. For example Danny Mills in his interview on the BBC Tees podcast told how he was strung along with his loan at the club with a string of broken promises and moving goalposts along the the way with the club being dishonest with him about their intentions to sign him permanently. Before eventually negotiating behind his back with Reiziger and not being up front with him about his future.

As for Downing, I think a lot of fans have completely rewritten his second spell with the club. He was in essence a victim of his own high standards as a lot of fans expected a Mersonesque promotion winning performance with him taking games by the scruff of the neck and dominating in the goal and assist charts. When that didn't happen and he didn't reach those heights he was dismissed as useless (for the money, as his wage was always held against him) and the boo boys got stuck in. Which was never going to help as Downing is the archetypal confidence player.

Whilst his second spell wasn't anywhere near as successful as the first one he often produced moments of class in games though looked like he was struggling to find players on the same wavelength as him. In many games he was more than adequate at Championship level but as he wasn't completely ripping it up as some fans expected they got stuck into him. Had we signed a midfield player called Joe Bloggs who hadn't played for the club previously and he delivered similar performance levels to Downing I'm not so sure people would have been anything like as critical of the performances. There would be more balance rather than constantly looking for the negatives all the time.

Yes, he didn't deliver a high number of goals and assists in that 2nd spell but you can impact a game and positively contribute without scoring or assisting. Equally you can trip over the ball and fall on your backside but if someone then scores from the loose ball you bag an assist. Opta has a lot to answer for, I prefer to use my own eyes to judge performances and not solely rely on stats. He wasn't sizzlingly brilliant in that second spell but he was ok and nowhere near as bad as many fans make out. I think the fact of the matter is some fans just never particularly warmed to the lad, even in his brilliant pomp in his first spell I can remember him getting stick for being a 'fanny' (their words not mine) when tough tackling was never his game.
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Nice one rooster well put. Downing had his moments in the 2nd spell and when he wasn’t on top of his game he was putting in 7/10 performances
 
theredrooster said:
As others have said there will be three sides to this. However I can easily believe what Downing has to say, there are other players who have reported similar shady behaviour by the club in the past. For example Danny Mills in his interview on the BBC Tees podcast told how he was strung along with his loan at the club with a string of broken promises and moving goalposts along the the way with the club being dishonest with him about their intentions to sign him permanently. Before eventually negotiating behind his back with Reiziger and not being up front with him about his future.

As for Downing, I think a lot of fans have completely rewritten his second spell with the club. He was in essence a victim of his own high standards as a lot of fans expected a Mersonesque promotion winning performance with him taking games by the scruff of the neck and dominating in the goal and assist charts. When that didn't happen and he didn't reach those heights he was dismissed as useless (for the money, as his wage was always held against him) and the boo boys got stuck in. Which was never going to help as Downing is the archetypal confidence player.

Whilst his second spell wasn't anywhere near as successful as the first one he often produced moments of class in games though looked like he was struggling to find players on the same wavelength as him. In many games he was more than adequate at Championship level but as he wasn't completely ripping it up as some fans expected they got stuck into him. Had we signed a midfield player called Joe Bloggs who hadn't played for the club previously and he delivered similar performance levels to Downing I'm not so sure people would have been anything like as critical of the performances. There would be more balance rather than constantly looking for the negatives all the time.

Yes, he didn't deliver a high number of goals and assists in that 2nd spell but you can impact a game and positively contribute without scoring or assisting. Equally you can trip over the ball and fall on your backside but if someone then scores from the loose ball you bag an assist. Opta has a lot to answer for, I prefer to use my own eyes to judge performances and not solely rely on stats. He wasn't sizzlingly brilliant in that second spell but he was ok and nowhere near as bad as many fans make out. I think the fact of the matter is some fans just never particularly warmed to the lad, even in his brilliant pomp in his first spell I can remember him getting stick for being a 'fanny' (their words not mine) when tough tackling was never his game.
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Had we signed Joe Bloggs for £5.5m rising to £7m for promotion he would’ve been placed under the same scrutinity. He was garbage - four performances if that.
 
coluka said:
M

Managers are managers, they do not have the say on contract terms, they also don't have a guaranteed veto on transfers, the owner has that privilege, Pulis in Downings words was embarrassed to do what he was employed to do, nothing more.
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Thats not what Pulis reckons he did here though is it? According to him he advised Gibson on all aspects of the club and specifically; how it should be run top to bottom. With that in mind, and knowing what a tool Pulis is, wouldn’t be surprised if he was stringing him along or at least reccomending how to get the best out of Downing before cutting him loose
 
A lot of people on here siding with Downing, that’s great. I also remember a great many more people on here giving Downing absolute DOG’S ABUSE in his last spell with us.
 
I think it’s a bit harsh to say he had 4 good performances when he came back. He played his part in an understated way and was a 6 or 7 out of 10 for a lot of the time. My only gripe with him was really he should of been one of the better players in the league and should of been getting 8 and 9s out of 10 more than he did. He was maybe slightly underrated on his second spell at times especially in the promotion season but that is largely to do because the fan base expected more. He’s gone now, he was a quality player and servant for us and a great product of the academy. I wish him well but am glad we cut ties with him when we did. And in my opinion Gibson deserves praise for that.
 
Ted_DN38416 said:
Thats not what Pulis reckons he did here though is it? According to him he advised Gibson on all aspects of the club and specifically; how it should be run top to bottom. With that in mind, and knowing what a tool Pulis is, wouldn’t be surprised if he was stringing him along or at least reccomending how to get the best out of Downing before cutting him loose
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You are making the mistake of believing rhetoric though. I understand why you are, but big business does not operate on truth and honesty. Look at the Woodgate press conference where we were expected to believe Woody could do a powerpoint presentation and he put Bola, Dijksteel and Browne forward to the board. Laughable really. All that glitters is not gold. I dislike Pulis, but Gibson is where the power is not the manager or head coach.
 
Was just thinking, would a very angry Downing be able to win a tackle do you think?

Btw, love Stuey Downing, great player for us overall even if disappointing second time round (I expected a greater contribution from him, running the show / games in the focal point no.10 role - perhaps unfairly I may add?)
 
coluka said:
You are making the mistake of believing rhetoric though. I understand why you are, but big business does not operate on truth and honesty. Look at the Woodgate press conference where we were expected to believe Woody could do a powerpoint presentation and he put Bola, Dijksteel and Browne forward to the board. Laughable really. All that glitters is not gold. I dislike Pulis, but Gibson is where the power is not the manager or head coach.
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No im not, thats my opinion not the rhetoric of others, although maybe others share that opinion maybe others don’t. I never liked the man before he came to us and like him even less since he left; rubbish football and a bit of a snake. We didnt need to play Pulis ball we had some good players, good enough for top two. Only reason we got into the play offs was because he was forced to play Bamford who never got a kick with Gestede around. From what Downing said Pulis was involved to an extent with whatever happened. For example, Downing said a waiver seemed to come or at least communicated through or from Pulis, and whether that was the clubs or Pulis’, idea it seems it definitely wasnt Downing’s. That in itself says enough doesnt it? That being said, i can understand Downing being disappointed with how things turned out but ultimately he didnt do enough on the pitch and words and conversations don’t mean anything unless theres a deal on the table.
 
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