The 9am figures not disclosed yet?

Germany and UK's health systems are vastly different ..

The UK as has been well documented stopped all important services at the time which leads to excess deaths funnily enough.

They have never recovered from that and still have eye watering waiting lists for many deadly ailments.

So excess deaths is not the measure when comparing Germany and the UK.

The UK's excess deaths show the impact of lockdown not just covid.
 
Work has been done that shows actually covid is replacing the flu i.e. it's winning the evolutionary battle so to speak, not social distancing stopping the flu.. so don't be so quick to jump down Randy's throat boss.

Replacing as in getting there first and killing people much earlier, as in it's a lot more deadly? As in like it got 50k people early in April/ May, and is now coming out for a second innings?

Flu comes from human transmission, and is passed in similar ways to covid, it's impossible that social distancing would not help stop flu, as it's impossible that it could make it any worse. If we wanted to stop flu then social distancing, masks and hand washing is how we would do it, along with flu jabs (UK offered the most flu jabs ever this year).
 
Work has been done that shows actually covid is replacing the flu i.e. it's winning the evolutionary battle so to speak, not social distancing stopping the flu.. so don't be so quick to jump down Randy's throat boss.
Is like to see that evidence Alvez. Not sniping BTW just can't see that being the case with an abundance of hosts. I would have also thought that the virus 'would co exist in a single host. Of course many of the folks who would be pre-disposed to attend hospital are now dead, so I guess that could have some bearing.
 
No as in it's very rare for to be infected by two virus at once because we have an immune system that kicks into high gear when infection one comes.

No idea what you mean by beating, the cold cancer and HIV bear but cool...

It is of course a strain of the common cold so guess it will beat that as it's more infectious
 
The UK's excess deaths show the impact of lockdown not just covid.

The impact of lockdown is nothing in comparison to covid, especially for the peak.
11k excess at the peak for the UK (11k over a typical 10k, 21k per week total) and we were on about 1,000 covid deaths per day (which would have been miles higher had we been testing dead people in care homes etc). This is indisputable. Imapct might be 20% at most, but it's unavoidable impact. If you don't lock down, covid gets worse and impact gets worse, it has to, as it cannot get better. We have to move resources from less risk to high risk, this means some more of those at less risk will die, it has to, but we can't prioritise less risk over more risk, literally nowhere does that in any instance.

Just because people couldn't get tested for cancer (or anything else) in April or May, does not mean they died instantly n April/ May. If it had that much of an impact the excess would have carried on way passed the peak/ lockdown, and we would be way over in june, july, august etc. Life threatening treatments still continued in April/ May, they reduced the less risk or routine treatments. Nobody ever said "if you think you're dying, don't come to hospital, just get your mate on facebook to do your heart bypass".
 
Is like to see that evidence Alvez. Not sniping BTW just can't see that being the case with an abundance of hosts. I would have also thought that the virus 'would co exist in a single host. Of course many of the folks who would be pre-disposed to attend hospital are now dead, so I guess that could have some bearing.

Here's something to get you started on your googling journey...

'But it is just a product of a little-understood phenomenon called “viral interference”: while one of these viruses holds sway in a person, or the population, for some reason the others can’t get a toehold. In September 2009, the swine flu pandemic that went on to sweep the world should have invaded Europe from the Americas. But the annual rhinovirus epidemic actually kept it at bay. The highly contagious new flu took over only when rhinovirus subsided, bumping RSV down the queue: RSV moved in only after that first wave of flu subsided.'

There have been one or two cases across the world this year where someone has both at the same time (I feel terrible for them) but generally not.
 
The impact of lockdown is nothing in comparison to covid, especially for the peak.
11k excess at the peak for the UK (11k over a typical 10k, 21k per week total) and we were on about 1,000 covid deaths per day (which would have been miles higher had we been testing dead people in care homes etc). This is indisputable. Imapct might be 20% at most, but it's unavoidable impact. If you don't lock down, covid gets worse and impact gets worse, it has to, as it cannot get better. We have to move resources from less risk to high risk, this means some more of those at less risk will die, it has to, but we can't prioritise less risk over more risk, literally nowhere does that in any instance.

Just because people couldn't get tested for cancer (or anything else) in April or May, does not mean they died instantly n April/ May. If it had that much of an impact the excess would have carried on way passed the peak/ lockdown, and we would be way over in june, july, august etc. Life threatening treatments still continued in April/ May, they reduced the less risk or routine treatments. Nobody ever said "if you think you're dying, don't come to hospital, just get your mate on facebook to do your heart bypass".

Yet there's been a severe rise in deaths at home from heart attacks and thousands die of cancer each week, nothing you say is indisputable like you claim but I'd rather not go in circles so we will just agree to disagree.
 
Yet there's been a severe rise in deaths at home from heart attacks and thousands die of cancer each week, nothing you say is indisputable like you claim but I'd rather not go in circles so we will just agree to disagree.
But deaths in hospitals are down to counteract the deaths at home
 
But deaths in hospitals are down to counteract the deaths at home

So as I understand it you're saying those lives would not have been saved had they attended hospital, well blimey Gaz, guess we shouldn't bother calling 999 in the event of a stroke or heart attack.

Could you link me to your data as well, I'm always interested in the granular stats.

Anyway lunch over time to get back to work.
 
So as I understand it you're saying those lives would not have been saved had they attended hospital, well blimey Gaz, guess we shouldn't bother calling 999 in the event of a stroke or heart attack.

Could you link me to your data as well, I'm always interested in the granular stats.

Anyway lunch over time to get back to work.

I seen it back in July on twitter but can’t remember where it was.
 
That "Dr Claire" posted her "excess" for other things on her Twitter, it's mentioned in the other thread. I think she managed to find about 500 excess deaths from other things, at the peak. Confirmed covid outdid her 14:1, and there's no doubt that covid could have brought on more excess in other things and not been seen, seeing as we didn't have enough tests, and it only went down as covid if tested positive in hospital. People could have easily died of anything at home that covid accelerated, and we would never know this as we were not testing those dead people.

I think we will get a better idea this time around, if less die at home untested and we test anyone suspected of a covid death or something that covid has accelerated. Yes there will be some that hit as covid that wasn't covid, but there will be 10x more that it was.
 
It surprises me when people like Randy, who argues strongly against lockdown measures, point out that flu cases are down, this proving the efficacy of lockdown measures!
I'm waiting for governments to ban cars. Car accidents cause around 1.3 million deaths around the world every year.

But that would just be nuts.

Right?

Right?
 
Of course they are. We've never social distanced before because of Flu, so everything we've been doing to stop Covid will have a knock on effect. HAsn't stopped me getting 3 colds since September from the little one bringing them back from Nursery though.
3 colds or 3 cases of covid?
Nobody knows these days.
 
I'm waiting for governments to ban cars. Car accidents cause around 1.3 million deaths around the world every year.

But that would just be nuts.

Right?

Right?

I’m not sure you can ‘ban’ a virus.

However, just to run with your comparison for a moment, we spend billions globally each year in an attempt to reduce such deaths, such as improved car safety, traffic calming measures, redesigned road layouts, etc. Every government has also introduced a raft of legislation which restricts people’s liberties to drive without having passed a test, drive fast, drive having drunk alcohol, drive whilst operating a mobile phone, etc, etc, etc.

Oh, and all of those restrictions are permanent, not merely for a few months.
 
I’m not sure you can ‘ban’ a virus.

However, just to run with your comparison for a moment, we spend billions globally each year in an attempt to reduce such deaths, such as improved car safety, traffic calming measures, redesigned road layouts, etc. Every government has also introduced a raft of legislation which restricts people’s liberties to drive without having passed a test, drive fast, drive having drunk alcohol, drive whilst operating a mobile phone, etc, etc, etc.

Oh, and all of those restrictions are permanent, not merely for a few months.
If I want to have a drink and drive I will, it’s absolutely fake that my reaction times and decision making is worse. No one is taking aware my freedoms

I mean if it wasn’t for alcohol I wouldn’t have met my wife, and that was the best decision I have made.....
 
If I want to have a drink and drive I will, it’s absolutely fake that my reaction times and decision making is worse. No one is taking aware my freedoms

I mean if it wasn’t for alcohol I wouldn’t have met my wife, and that was the best decision I have made.....

And I think I should be allowed to judge the drink drive risk myself. It’s not like me doing so might have consequences for others...
 
Germany and UK's health systems are vastly different ..

The UK as has been well documented stopped all important services at the time which leads to excess deaths funnily enough.

They have never recovered from that and still have eye watering waiting lists for many deadly ailments.

So excess deaths is not the measure when comparing Germany and the UK.

The UK's excess deaths show the impact of lockdown not just covid.
So basically, whatever method of comparing our system to Germany you will reject. Yup, no surprise.

Can you point me in the way of the work showing covid is replacing flu?

Do you, personally, believe that maintaining social distancing and restricting activities doesn't have any effect on transmission of commutable disease?
 
I’m not sure you can ‘ban’ a virus.

However, just to run with your comparison for a moment, we spend billions globally each year in an attempt to reduce such deaths, such as improved car safety, traffic calming measures, redesigned road layouts, etc. Every government has also introduced a raft of legislation which restricts people’s liberties to drive without having passed a test, drive fast, drive having drunk alcohol, drive whilst operating a mobile phone, etc, etc, etc.

Oh, and all of those restrictions are permanent, not merely for a few months.
You are missing my point entirely.
Meeting family and friends, socialising like we used to, working like we used to, travelling like we used to etc all restricted or outright banned in the battle against a virus from mother nature. But the world could instantly prevent a million plus deaths related to cars by stopping the use of them outright. But they don't. Same with preventing millions suffering from smoking related illnesses, they don't ban tobacco, why is that?
They never shut the world down before when we had serious flu outbreaks in the past.

We've all been psychologically controlled and people can't see it.
 
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