Well There We Have It, The Easy 'Oven Ready Deal' that Never Was...

I know. I’m saying I don’t agree that this is brinksmanship on our part. I think this has always been the end game.

I completely agree that they are **** at it.

I also think that it was their intention at the start of the negotiations, but the realisation of what a no-deal actually means in practical terms has finally sunk into their thick skulls.
 
I know. I’m saying I don’t agree that this is brinksmanship on our part. I think this has always been the end game.

I completely agree that they are **** at it.

The interesting bit in all this is the business leaders I know who have been working on contingency plans with government for the last 18 months, are more confident than they have ever been that there will be a trade deal.
Granted, it is only their view, but up until a few months ago they were pessimistic in the extreme.
Their summary is that there is no appetite amongst the vast majority of Tory MPs for No Deal.
Talks have already been extended beyond a Johnson deadline and there was a hint we would walk away yesterday.

Time will tell.

Also worth pointing out, by the way, even a ‘trade deal Brexit’ knackers our GDP by -5% according to government estimates.
For context Covid impact is estimated at -2.1%
 
Finny the only thing that gives me any confidence that that is so is that I wouldn’t put it past Johnson and Cummings to create a situation that any deal however constructed between now and January will be subsequently deemed as a triumph. They won’t want the image of hundreds of lorries stacked up in Nigel’s garage in Dover to spoil the “party”
 
Finny the only thing that gives me any confidence that that is so is that I wouldn’t put it past Johnson and Cummings to create a situation that any deal however constructed between now and January will be subsequently deemed as a triumph. They won’t want the image of hundreds of lorries stacked up in Nigel’s garage in Dover to spoil the “party”

I think that is a huge factor too Cardiff
’We beat them into submission and got everything we wanted’
kind of speech has, no doubt, been written.

‘Oven ready speech’ if you like
 
I see Monsieur 'No deal' Barnier the king of intransigence has already booked his ticket to London on Monday. I bet he is missing the days of preparing May's sandwiches when she used to fly over at a moments notice to Brussels.

Well we got pie and mash and whelks for starters - Bon appetit
 
I see Monsieur 'No deal' Barnier the king of intransigence has already booked his ticket to London on Monday. I bet he is missing the days of preparing May's sandwiches when she used to fly over at a moments notice to Brussels.

Well we got pie and mash and whelks for starters - Bon appetit
Barnier can only work within the mandate he's been given by the EU.
 
I see Monsieur 'No deal' Barnier the king of intransigence has already booked his ticket to London on Monday. I bet he is missing the days of preparing May's sandwiches when she used to fly over at a moments notice to Brussels.

Well we got pie and mash and whelks for starters - Bon appetit
Laughable response.

"Easiest deal in history" as I recall. And "They need us more than we need them", non?
 
I think the Brexit vote was a victory of emotion over logic, the majority of key values that the Brexit campaign were fought on were immeasurable notions such as sovereignty, control, the remain campaign couldn’t sell unachievable dreams and the reality of borders, trade tariffs and the like didn’t appeal to those who were looking for a change.

What the Leave campaign did well was deflect the hardships of austerity onto the EU and propagated the myth that we’d be better off by not contributing to Europe by using the net loss we made from the Union instead of including the real benefits such as the access to trade and markets etc that being in the EU gave us.

There is nothing to be gained in pointing fingers at voters, and in hindsight the previously derided Labour policy of a second vote based on the terms agreed on Brexit may not have been such a bad idea, many leave voters will feel betrayed at what has happened and have been let down as promise after promise has been retracted, my greatest fear was a Johnson led Brexit and that has sadly come true and things will continue to get worse, sadly, but continuing division is part of the plan and until that abeys the country will be fractured.
 
Maybe the remain thinking should take a hard look at those that represented them , the Labour party that couldn't make their case for the easiest referendum win in history.
As you all (most) say the case for staying in the EU was a no brainer.

Pity you chose those with no brains to make the case.
 
A sizeable number voted against the Labour party not the same as voting Tory. As by default its what you have to do.

Just hope the Labour party will respect the electorate from now on. The certainly dd not in the heartlands. And they are paying the price. And maybe all of us are.
 
Maybe the remain thinking should take a hard look at those that represented them
This was always a Tory solution to a Tory problem. They were haemorrhaging votes to UKIP, Cameron having "won" the Scottish Independence referendum sought to quiet the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party with another easy win...

Yes, Labour had a similar but much smaller problem with Euroscepticism but this was Cameron's call, May's red lines and Johnson's incompetence. The role of Corbyn et al. in this utter betrayal of the British people is that of bit part players.
 
They will be making concessions at 11pm 31 December. They have massive form in this respect. Its what they do. Not going to work this time I suspect.
In the context of negotiating trade deals with other countries that's a complete myth I'm afraid. There might be a compromise of some sort that BoJo will dress up as some sort of "victory" but it won't amount to much.
 
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