No in my opinion there's a big difference between paid members of staff doing the opposite of what they're employed to do, and members of the party choosing not to volunteer in their spare time. Fair enough if you see it differently though.
YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!
- Thread starter Chris_Boro
- Start date
No in my opinion there's a big difference between paid members of staff doing the opposite of what they're employed to do, and members of the party choosing not to volunteer in their spare time. Fair enough if you see it differently though.
Similarly I just see this differently. Honestly I don't understand how a representative political system is meant to work if you're not going to expect politicians to stand by at least some of what they say to get elected.
A lot of people are easily fooled. Starmer is a con man and most of the public are idiots and they don't even understand what they're voting for. Have you forgotten about Brexit and Johnson and Trump? Don't try and tell me what to do, mate. I don't take kindly to that.
This I absolutely do agree with. Anyone voting for the party thinking they'll be really different when the manifesto comes out, or they'll be really different in government, or they'll be really different in a second/third/umpteenth term, or especially thinking they'll bring in a new voting system, really ought to know these things are unlikely in the extreme.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
Why do you post such things about me on the forum?
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
There's a very good reason, it would cost a ridiculous amount of money.
PR or any other system would require a full root and branch change to our electoral and parliamentary system or it would be pointless. It would also require a long consultation process, public education campaign and probably multiple referendums, just to decide which type.
There's also no guarantee it would change voting habits or produce a functional government that isn't brought down every 5 minutes.
It cost £75 million, just to hold the AV referendum.
Alternative Vote Referendum Cost £75m
The cost to the taxpayer of Nick Clegg's bid to ditch first past the post - which was roundly rejected - is revealed.
news.sky.com
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Opponents of change often overestimate the costs.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
The manifesto comes out before voting takes place.
Being in opposition and being in government can't be compared. I mean how could they be?
The Labour manifesto will effectively be the party's pledge of what it intends to achieve in the first term of government. If you don't like the manifesto then don't vote for them, it really is that simple. If and after the Labour Party is elected then you simply judge them on the realisation their manifesto. If you don't think they've complied with it don't vote for them next time.
You're just saying things like this for effect now.
I don't know anyone who thinks they'll bring in a new voting system once elected, do you?
There's a very good reason, it would cost a ridiculous amount of money.
PR or any other system would require a full root and branch change to our electoral and parliamentary system or it would be pointless. It would also require a long consultation process, public education campaign and probably multiple referendums, just to decide which type.
There's also no guarantee it would change voting habits or produce a functional government that isn't brought down every 5 minutes.
It cost £75 million, just to hold the AV referendum.
Alternative Vote Referendum Cost £75m
The cost to the taxpayer of Nick Clegg's bid to ditch first past the post - which was roundly rejected - is revealed.
Is that a good reason?
Standing by a system that makes voting pointless for most of the country just to save about 0.01% of what the government spend each year seems quite short sighted to me.It sure does
well in gadge, not like you to say something correct. All of those examples were sentiments I've seen expressed on here.
festa5
Well-known member
I was already convinced as it was.
Where do I sign? Given the last 15 years a full root and branch change sounds amazing. Be hard to make it much worse at this point.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
No need mate, you clearly alluded to a scenario where voting takes place before manifesto publication.It sure does
You should be able to quote a few then but specifically the change in voting system I doubt has been said by anyone on the forum.
Scrote
Well-known member
But, as SuperStu said earlier, the Labour party ARE making commitments.
They're committed to handing the NHS to the private sector.
They're committed to continue with light regulation on finance.
They're committed to keeping low taxation on passive wealth.
Nothing that appeals to me as a left-of-centre voter.
I used Durham North West as it had a similar swing that is highly unlikely to have been the fault of "the left" (Laura Pidcock was a 'Corbynite'). I can only take your word for "the left" acting badly in Blyth Valley and you've offered no real explanation as to why they downed tools. However, unless they were canvassing for the opposition, their time isn't a given. As with Redcar and Anna Turley, I keep being told the loss of my vote isn't important due to the electoral maths that's been done - I assume that takes into account such things as canvassing time etc. If it doesn't then maybe alienating half of your support base isn't a great idea.
Again, as has been mentioned by Bumface, this call to unite the party didn't get made across the party in 2017 or 2019. It's a bit rich making it now - especially when in the same breath, the left is being told they aren't wanted.
And leave those that don't to do just that too. It all works both ways.
Nope. I said anyone expecting the Labour party to be different when their manifesto comes out is misguided. Nothing to do with when a vote takes place.
Why don't you reply to my messages?
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
FFS you said no such thing, it's there in black and white.
"Anyone voting for the party thinking they'll be really different when the manifesto comes out..............really ought to know these things are unlikely in the extreme."
Stu if you've made a mistake fair enough we all do but just stop being silly.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
Message.
I read it at 7:00am then had to go to work.
It deserves better than a one line reply.
How you post about me on the forum vs your private messages is like chalk and cheese. It's as if you're trying to impress the older boys.
Laughing
Well-known member
You have a point Bbg?
Laughing
Well-known member
I don't care whether you take kindly to it or not. You are like a 15 year old that's been dumped by their first partner.
You have to live in the world as it's presented to you, not some idyllic fantasy.
As for everyone being dumb and you seeing clearly! Don't make me laugh.