Can anyone explain the logic of SUV vehicles?

SmallTown said:
Because it makes no sense to me really. I can see fine from a saloon car as can most people. The only decent argument I've seen on this thread for a high driving position is if you very specifically drive on country lanes with hedges of a certain height. Other than that it's a strange argument
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It's not a black and white issue which is why you are failing to understand. It's a spectrum where the higher you are, the better you can see. It's not blind in a saloon, perfect vision in an SUV. The highest driving position gives a better view.

If you've ever been to a football match or a stadium, which I assume you have, there is a very big difference between sitting pitch side and sitting in the upper tier. You can see most things low in the stand but your perspective gives you a better perception of depth and positioning the higher you go. It's really not a difficult concept.

It's not just about seeing over hedges, everything is easier to see from a raised seating position. There is a point where it becomes a negative (like HGVs being unable to see what is directly in front of them).

I drive a saloon and an SUV because we have 2 cars. In the SUV when I'm driving behind a smaller car I can see the car in front of that over the top more easily. If they break I can react at the same time as the car immediately in front of me but I don't get that view as well in the saloon.
 
Defender 4x4 said:
Have you ever driven a higher seated vehicle like a Landrover Defender on country lanes ? Probably not. Over many years I have driven 5 Defenders numerous Golf GTI's and a few low sports cars. The Defenders give better forward vision on country lanes than any of the low alternatives. You are obviously not going to see everything but you see vastly more than a normal car.
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Why does it matter if I’ve ever drove a higher seated vehicle? Why do you jump to an assumption over which vehicles I drive now?

All I’ve said is that I don’t believe people buy SUVs because they want to see over hedges whilst driving in country lanes.
 
Can't speak for others, but I like mine because of my bad back and gammy knee.
What's the big deal anyway? Ďifferent people like different types of cars for different reasons.
 
Rofesleg said:
Can't speak for others, but I like mine because of my bad back and gammy knee.
What's the big deal anyway? Ďifferent people like different types of cars for different reasons.
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I think it's the issue with pollution and space. And the fact they are slightly more dangerous
 
SmallTown said:
I think it's the issue with pollution and space. And the fact they are slightly more dangerous
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The dangerous one works two ways though and for me I see it like added insurance when it comes to my kids. When you live rurally your kids are at risk everytime there’s nice whether by the towny chavs visiting in their sh1ty little corsas and astras, also some older ones in Evoques and F-Paces who think it’s acceptable to drive 60 on narrow often single track country lanes including round blind bends just because the sign says national speed limit and they wrongly think they are good drivers. The wife and I have had many a near miss because of it, I’d far rather if they hit us head on I was in something heavier so I know my kids are safer, the wife’s last car had a bull bar when we bought it, I kept it fitted for added protection. If one of the idiots end up in A&E that’s their problem for driving like a prat. I will always put my family first.

When I lived in Marske and then Middleton St George, I could see no benefit in SUVs either. Since I moved somewhere more remote I can 100% see why rural people have them. (Not so much for people in towns though, especially the Chelsea tractor type of owners)
 
Priv said:
The dangerous one works two ways though and for me I see it like added insurance when it comes to my kids. When you live rurally your kids are at risk everytime there’s nice whether by the towny chavs visiting in their sh1ty little corsas and astras, also some older ones in Evoques and F-Paces who think it’s acceptable to drive 60 on narrow often single track country lanes including round blind bends just because the sign says national speed limit and they wrongly think they are good drivers. The wife and I have had many a near miss because of it, I’d far rather if they hit us head on I was in something heavier so I know my kids are safer, the wife’s last car had a bull bar when we bought it, I kept it fitted for added protection. If one of the idiots end up in A&E that’s their problem for driving like a prat. I will always put my family first.

When I lived in Marske and then Middleton St George, I could see no benefit in SUVs either. Since I moved somewhere more remote I can 100% see why rural people have them. (Not so much for people in towns though, especially the Chelsea tractor type of owners)
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I think it's the impression of added safety rather than safety in and of itself is the issue. People think oh they are big so they are safe. I see the opposite: braking distances are worse and it's harder to avoid a reckless driver as handling is compromised by the high centre of gravity.
 
its just one of a zillion trifling subjects (man made agendas) to tittle-tattle, bitch, get angry, 'entertain' ourselves with whilst burying our first world heads in the sand about all the real shiite in the world, which lets face it, we can do fook all about, but like to think we can, now we think we have important shouty voices on social media. file with 'where you come from', how rich you are, are you slightly right wing, or very slightly left wing, are u 'woke'. you don't have to be mad to live here, but if fookin helps! bring on the footy for some sanity.
 
afcb_acklam said:
its just one of a zillion trifling subjects (man made agendas) to tittle-tattle, bitch, get angry, 'entertain' ourselves with whilst burying our first world heads in the sand about all the real shiite in the world, which lets face it, we can do fook all about, but like to think we can, now we think we have important shouty voices on social media. file with 'where you come from', how rich you are, are you slightly right wing, or very slightly left wing, are u 'woke'. you don't have to be mad to live here, but if fookin helps! bring on the footy for some sanity.
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Absolutely Spot on.
 
SmallTown said:
That makes no sense if even one car in the left hand lane is also an SUV. Which sadly these days it pro ably will be. I understand the country lane thing, just. Bit for urban roads and motorways no one needs a higher driving position
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I knew someone would try and tell me my lived experience was wrong on this thread....................... and i was pretty sure i knew who it would be!

Its basic physics. If I'm in row 2 at the riverside, my overall view of the pitch is far worse than if I'm in row 20! regardless of how tall the person infront of me is

*Edit - Just realise Nano made the exact same point re views at a footy pitch. (talks sense that lad)
 
SmallTown said:
I think it's the issue with pollution and space. And the fact they are slightly more dangerous
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I think the danger element of any car is more to do with the driver than the height of the car.
I'm not the world's best driver but I like to think that my car with me behind the wheel is safer than my neighbour's Corsa with him driving.
When he is reverse parking I make sure my family and pets are safely indoors and that my buildings insurance is up to date.
 
Rofesleg said:
I think the danger element of any car is more to do with the driver than the height of the car.
I'm not the world's best driver but I like to think that my car with me behind the wheel is safer than my neighbour's Corsa with him driving.
When he is reverse parking I make sure my family and pets are safely indoors and that my buildings insurance is up to date.
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The drivers that worry me are the self professed 'great drivers' or the people that describe a vehicle as being a 'driver's car'.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
I knew someone would try and tell me my lived experience was wrong on this thread....................... and i was pretty sure i knew who it would be!

Its basic physics. If I'm in row 2 at the riverside, my overall view of the pitch is far worse than if I'm in row 20! regardless of how tall the person infront of me is

*Edit - Just realise Nano made the exact same point re views at a footy pitch. (talks sense that lad)
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I do't think I did tell you your lived experience was wrong. Sorry if it came across that way. You're obviously lucky enough never to have had to brake hard or steer quickly to avoid an accident.
 
Priv said:
The contents of those signs would give away my daughters school, I know at least 3 other members live somewhere near me so they may well recognise that junction, but we do have a few weirdos on this board that I wouldn’t be fully comfortable disclosing that info too.
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More than fair.
 
SmallTown said:
I think it's the impression of added safety rather than safety in and of itself is the issue. People think oh they are big so they are safe. I see the opposite: braking distances are worse and it's harder to avoid a reckless driver as handling is compromised by the high centre of gravity.
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I assumed people were using evidence rather than just feelings but I did a quick Google to see whether there is any safety information for SUVs and every single article/study mentions that being in a crash in an SUV has significantly better outcomes than being in a smaller car. Before Electronic Stability Controls were mandatory there was an increased risk of rolling an SUV but that's no longer the case. If you are in a collision the heavier vehicle is safer than the lighter one, the bigger the car the further away you likely are from the impact. Heavier cars do have increased stopping distances but the data doesn't show that they are in more collisions and maybe the improved visibility reduces the chance of having to stop or maybe heavier cars are driven more slowly/safely because they are more likely to be driving with kids in the car. The stats show that smaller cars have a massively increased likelihood of being in a fatality.

Also, due to its raised position and the fact an SUV is reinforced, it's able to handle a much larger impact. In fact, research has found that an SUV driver or passenger is at least 50 percent more likely to survive a car crash without suffering serious injuries than an individual riding in a saloon.

It looks clear from the data, and it's perfectly logical so it makes sense, that in a multi-vehicle collision the heavier one will be safer. It seems that the safest thing would be for everyone to be driving identical cars but that isn't the case. Game theory would suggest that (if safety was the only issue) that people will choose heavier cars to increase their own safety (which does reduce safety for everyone). We know there are heavy cars on the road so the safest thing to do is to buy a car that reduces the weight differential between vehicles. People don't just buy the safest car though. They buy a car that is rated highly for safety but it is usually other factors that make them choose that car (I know safety wasn't a consideration for me, it was space, comfort and price and I considered safety a given).
 
Nano said:
I assumed people were using evidence rather than just feelings but I did a quick Google to see whether there is any safety information for SUVs and every single article/study mentions that being in a crash in an SUV has significantly better outcomes than being in a smaller car. Before Electronic Stability Controls were mandatory there was an increased risk of rolling an SUV but that's no longer the case. If you are in a collision the heavier vehicle is safer than the lighter one, the bigger the car the further away you likely are from the impact. Heavier cars do have increased stopping distances but the data doesn't show that they are in more collisions and maybe the improved visibility reduces the chance of having to stop or maybe heavier cars are driven more slowly/safely because they are more likely to be driving with kids in the car. The stats show that smaller cars have a massively increased likelihood of being in a fatality.

Also, due to its raised position and the fact an SUV is reinforced, it's able to handle a much larger impact. In fact, research has found that an SUV driver or passenger is at least 50 percent more likely to survive a car crash without suffering serious injuries than an individual riding in a saloon.

It looks clear from the data, and it's perfectly logical so it makes sense, that in a multi-vehicle collision the heavier one will be safer. It seems that the safest thing would be for everyone to be driving identical cars but that isn't the case. Game theory would suggest that (if safety was the only issue) that people will choose heavier cars to increase their own safety (which does reduce safety for everyone). We know there are heavy cars on the road so the safest thing to do is to buy a car that reduces the weight differential between vehicles. People don't just buy the safest car though. They buy a car that is rated highly for safety but it is usually other factors that make them choose that car (I know safety wasn't a consideration for me, it was space, comfort and price and I considered safety a given).
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So, if i read your article correctly they can overcome the dynamic flaws by making the vehciel even heavier? Hmmm. And that's only counting collisons. Not the improved dynamics of a saloon car that woudl help you AVOID said collisions. Which was my point. So safety isn't a given if you're more liekly to be unable to avoid an accident
 
Defender 4x4 said:
We live in rural North Yorkshire. I used to drive Defenders. The higher driving position is a major positive when driving on country lanes with tall hedges. It gives a massive advantage to see cars coming from a good distance away round corners. I now drive a Freelander 2 I do not class it and an SUV as it's not sporty.
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Pretty much the same as me, although I have a Volvo rather than a JLR after a bad experience with my previous car. The nearest shop is about 4 mile from my house, and so when it snows it's essential in order to not starve.
 
SmallTown said:
Fair. If I lived somewhere rural AWD would be a must it just surprises me that people thank all SUV are off roaders.
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You would have loved the place we were on Saturday, a load of SUV's stuck in the mud after a day seeing father christmas at the farm (I was OK as I'd got there early and parked in the car park). Helped a few people to get out with pushing, and got covered in mud for my troubles.
 
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