Ingleby_Flash
Well-known member
I ain’t working an extra four days
Four day working week
- Thread starter Norman_Conquest
- Start date
dooderooni
Well-known member
Flexible working hours should be the aim for every organisation. Of course, in some industries it'll be more of a challenge, but only working 4 days has so many benefits for workers in regards to their personal lives which in turn will benefit their employers from staff engagement to reduced absence.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I would imagine that departments that need covering 5 days would have staff in them working alternative days - some staff having the Monday off and others not working a Friday.
Regarding savings, I would see this as a way to retain staff and not make cuts to departments due to lack of funding.
My wife works for Stockton Council Careers Department and they’ve been asked to buy two weeks extra holidays to save colleague’s jobs. Staff can’t be forced to do this but the majority have opted to do it to save jobs. Other young people’s services have been drastically cut to allow the council to make ends meet.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
I was lucky enough to be on Flexi time for the first 10? years of my working life. Moved jobs, had a Flexi ish time system.
Then, moving to a 5 days a week 9-5.....was a bit of a shock to the system. Personally don't like it, doesn't suit me.
Quite a few places I've worked are absolutely adamant your ar*e must be at your desk before 9, cannot leave before the clock strikes 5.
Worked at one place where I was contracted 37.5 hrs, 9-5. Arrived 7-30-7-45 to beat traffic. Worked lunch as the office was in the middle of nowhere. Try to leave at 5? Funny looks from the other staff. Directors actually pulled me in to have a quiet word about my timekeeping..... wouldn't have it I was doing 9+hrs a day, 45+ hrs week. Funny enough, left shortly after........
No, big fan of flexible working
Then, moving to a 5 days a week 9-5.....was a bit of a shock to the system. Personally don't like it, doesn't suit me.
Quite a few places I've worked are absolutely adamant your ar*e must be at your desk before 9, cannot leave before the clock strikes 5.
Worked at one place where I was contracted 37.5 hrs, 9-5. Arrived 7-30-7-45 to beat traffic. Worked lunch as the office was in the middle of nowhere. Try to leave at 5? Funny looks from the other staff. Directors actually pulled me in to have a quiet word about my timekeeping..... wouldn't have it I was doing 9+hrs a day, 45+ hrs week. Funny enough, left shortly after........
No, big fan of flexible working
The tricky thing with policies like 4 day working weeks is to get yourself to think of them right across society and not just in a single workplace.
Yes, the intuitive answer will be that docs and nurses reducing their hours 20% would make the service worse.
But what about all the patients working 20% fewer hours too? Some will be able to use that time and live healthier lifestyles. Have time to go to a gym, or prepare meals from scratch. Some will use it to work a second job and give themselves a bit more money and alleviate stress/poverty. Some will use it for voluntary work and end up alleviating someone elses stress/poverty.
You might, completely reasonably, say well thats fine for working folk but most of the NHS users are pensioners. But the point of the policy is once it happens, it stays. So yes maybe it wouldn't do much for todays pensioners, but what about in 50 years time when todays 20 year olds are retiring? The compounded effect of them all hopefully being a little less stressed, a little less skint, a little more healthy...?
TL: DR - hopefully it lowers patient numbers as well as doc and nurse hours.
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JM14
Well-known member
It doesn’t need to be every sector, clearly it’s not feasible for a hospital, but plenty of other sectors could definitely adopt it
Colgates_shaving_foam
Well-known member
Hope you asked the Directors where the F*** their fat ar*es were at 7.30 am? lazy b*******.I was lucky enough to be on Flexi time for the first 10? years of my working life. Moved jobs, had a Flexi ish time system.
Then, moving to a 5 days a week 9-5.....was a bit of a shock to the system. Personally don't like it, doesn't suit me.
Quite a few places I've worked are absolutely adamant your ar*e must be at your desk before 9, cannot leave before the clock strikes 5.
Worked at one place where I was contracted 37.5 hrs, 9-5. Arrived 7-30-7-45 to beat traffic. Worked lunch as the office was in the middle of nowhere. Try to leave at 5? Funny looks from the other staff. Directors actually pulled me in to have a quiet word about my timekeeping..... wouldn't have it I was doing 9+hrs a day, 45+ hrs week. Funny enough, left shortly after........
No, big fan of flexible working
I hate that whole presenteeism culture. It's what you get done that counts, not how long you are sitting at a desk.
JM14
Well-known member
Imagine the uproar with the core Tory voters if this generation get to work less hours than the last one, not a chance it will ever be allowed for this reason alone. This is despite numerous studies which show it would work very well for councils, significantly improve recruitment and ultimately save money
Funnily enough, they're the folks this should be most normal to. The idea of working hours not steadily reducing as technology progresses is a recent one. As is so often the case, Thatcher ruined it.
festa5
Well-known member
Yes, exactly. Plus people with more leisure team are likely to spend more and there'll be more of a demand for businesses operating in that area, further boosting the economy. Requires big picture thinking and challenging orthodox wisdom from the 70s. Moving with the times. Something the Tories iwith their hard ons for the fictional "good old days" struggle with in particular.The tricky thing with policies like 4 day working weeks is to get yourself to think of them right across society and not just in a single workplace.
Yes, the intuitive answer will be that docs and nurses reducing their hours 20% would make the service worse.
But what about all the patients working 20% fewer hours too? Some will be able to use that time and live healthier lifestyles. Have time to go to a gym, or prepare meals from scratch. Some will use it to work a second job and give themselves a bit more money and alleviate stress/poverty. Some will use it for voluntary work and end up alleviating someone elses stress/poverty.
You might, completely reasonably, say well thats fine for working folk but most of the NHS users are pensioners. But the point of the policy is once it happens, it stays. So yes maybe it wouldn't do much for todays pensioners, but what about in 50 years time when todays 20 year olds are retiring? The compounded effect of them all hopefully being a little less stressed, a little less skint, a little more healthy...?
TLR - hopefully it lowers patient numbers as well as doc and nurse hours.
There's also the elephant in the room that is AI and automation. It should be beneficial to all and allow more things like 4 day weeks.
But it's entirely predictable it will instead be used as an opportunity to cut jobs and make the rich even richer.
While the government scratch their heads confused why society is crumbling around them and no-one spends money anymore.
Exactly this, and if the working conditions are better for the nurses/doctors then maybe we might hold on to them for longer, actually fill the job vacancies, and when they are working they are off less for stress etc...The tricky thing with policies like 4 day working weeks is to get yourself to think of them right across society and not just in a single workplace.
Yes, the intuitive answer will be that docs and nurses reducing their hours 20% would make the service worse.
But what about all the patients working 20% fewer hours too? Some will be able to use that time and live healthier lifestyles. Have time to go to a gym, or prepare meals from scratch. Some will use it to work a second job and give themselves a bit more money and alleviate stress/poverty. Some will use it for voluntary work and end up alleviating someone elses stress/poverty.
You might, completely reasonably, say well thats fine for working folk but most of the NHS users are pensioners. But the point of the policy is once it happens, it stays. So yes maybe it wouldn't do much for todays pensioners, but what about in 50 years time when todays 20 year olds are retiring? The compounded effect of them all hopefully being a little less stressed, a little less skint, a little more healthy...?
TL
It could be a net positive
From my perspective (nothing to do with NHS) an extra day off a week would be a total game changer, with a young family etc..
h_m_boro
Well-known member
I returned to a previous practice, very staff welfare focussed, total opposite to what they were.
Had to wait until the formal offer landed. Called into a meeting to discuss a (sh*t) new job. The director started his blurb, I casually asked "can I stop you there. I really don't think I'm the best person to be on this job" he kind of looked at me none too pleased asked "why's that?" "Because I'm leaving. Formal letter of resignation will be sent after this meeting". Silence. "Well no point you being in this meeting, you can leave". Look on his face was lovely
Second time I have done that, beats the Friday tea time email then switching your computer off.....
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I wonder which paper these two read and who they voted for.
The Guardian - Outside a local pharmacy, Edna and Ken Cox stop to speak as they run their midweek errands. Edna Cox, who is retired, believes that the four-day week does not allow enough time for employees to complete their work.
“Having come from an older age group, I don’t think you can do what you need to do in reduced working hours,” she says. “Back in my day, I was in charge of an office and we could not have done the work we did in four days. Our workload involved phone calls, chasing people, etc. So no, I don’t believe in a four-day week.”
Ken says: “I worked bloody hard. There was no way I could have done the job in four days. There were some days where I used to leave at 6am and return at 10pm just to get the job done.
He adds: “It is all rubbish, if they honestly think they can do a five-day week in four days, they could always be sensible and still let the employees work for five days and then get rid of half of them. You can’t have it both ways – either have a five-day job, or you’ve got too many people.”
Because the world will collapse if people don't work 5 days a week
Times are changing and we need to go with it, I'm not saying the answer is clear but there has to be room for innovation and not doing things just because that's always how it's been done
JM14
Well-known member
Yep, we worked long awful hours so this generation should do the same essentially
Oblivious to the fact the working world is completely different to what it was 20 years ago. Those phone calls/chasing people is now probably automated
If someone went back in time and asked a guy from the 1830s what they thought about Edna and Ken only working 5 days a week during their careers, rather than 6, they'd probably make similar points.
festa5
Well-known member
This is a big part of the problem in this country. People voting based on things that don't effect them, that they don't understand and are actually none of their F***ing business.
Sadly the politics of envy and resentment are often more successful than those of hope or aspiration. Easier to sell and the right wing politicians and media know it.
Edna and Ken are easy targets. No doubt live in their own little world, watching ***** on the telly and with an unshakeable belief their very narrow and limited life experience must be replicated across the country and is the only "truth" that exists.
What I can’t wrap my head around in this is, who is the “we/they” when we talk about moving on to a 4 day week.
Obviously people will still want to go to the shops, pub, restaurants etc on a weekend and no one is suggesting that those things shut down on a Thursday night. But is the four day week something that’s only going to benefit those of us who have a Mon to Fri 9-5?
I think it’s a good idea in principle, but can’t figure out how it’s done without kind of segregating the workforce.
Obviously people will still want to go to the shops, pub, restaurants etc on a weekend and no one is suggesting that those things shut down on a Thursday night. But is the four day week something that’s only going to benefit those of us who have a Mon to Fri 9-5?
I think it’s a good idea in principle, but can’t figure out how it’s done without kind of segregating the workforce.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
You do know you could have staff working alternative days/shifts to cover every day. Monday to Thursday is not set in stone.
Well I suspect it won't be enforced as such. No-one is enforcing a 5 day week at the moment, it's just social convention for a lot of jobs.
I think the general idea is that we are working too much, and if we improve efficiency (at a societal level, company level, and personal level) we can reduce waste and improve efficiency, whilst also improving personal outcomes (e.g. working less, having better health) without reducing pay and profits
So if you are working 4 shifts of 12 hours, maybe you'd only work 3 instead (if your employer buys into it of course)